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How can you "drill baby drill" people be so f*ckin heartless? It's like people just don't matter anymore if there's money to be made.
...
To you I'm just a "dumb lower 48er" who doesn't get it because I don't live there. Well that's ridiculous too. In fact I'm far enough removed from it to actually give a sh*t about the people who live in that village and their priceless culture. Your temporary oil money is their permanent cultural destruction.
Whoa Ship now nobody has called you a "dumb lower 48er" so let's reign in the emotions and have a rational discussion. The social phenomenon which occurs when a primitive civilization is dominated (by force, coercion, etc) by a more prosperous civilization is at play here. The Inupiat do not want to return (as starlite9 mentioned) to sod houses, high infant mortality, disease, and certain early death. That fact is held in tension by a very real desire to keep their traditions, language, culture and history alive and in the memory of current and future generations.
Oil revenue is the lubrication in that tension. They cannot live as they do without it. And they cannot live without access to a thriving marine subsistence lifestyle either. So there is the rub. When you say "it's like people just don't matter anymore if there's money to be made" you're missing the point that those very people you are referring to benefit from the money being made--though perhaps not to the degree they would like.
As for preserving Inupiat culture: that is not in the purview of white America. It is something the Inupiat must (and do!) look after for themselves. But believe me when I say--and I know many natives including some Athabascans in my own family--by and large they do not yearn for the days when Eskimos would kill them (and vice versa) sight on scene. Theirs was an unimaginably rough life. Though it has its problems I'm sure, Point Hope is a better place today.
Gawd I just know someone's gonna get riled up over this post.
Your numbers are--often quoted--but incorrect. 21 billion is the proven oil reserves in the United States, not including the 700+ million barrels in the strategic petroleum reserve. Estimated by the US Dept of the Interior is at least 134 billion total volume of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil (excluding oil shale). Including shale oil the number is at least 270 billion barrels, but that is more hypothetical.
In addition, if you throw in natural gas into the fossil fuels picture, we're actually looking pretty good for a hundred years out. The US is considered the "Saudi Arabia" of natural gas.
BTW arctic good to see you around again! Are you ever up in Manley Hot Springs these days?
The problem is that is mostly low quality oil, it'll be so expensive we might as well import oil and dry up the rest of the world's supply first. And then, actually extracting it is a hurdle itself.
I sold my land. Still planning on moving up but it will be in a different part of the state, likely. Thinking somewhere isolated in Southcentral, to have a few more options with growing things...
I sold my land. Still planning on moving up but it will be in a different part of the state, likely. Thinking somewhere isolated in Southcentral, to have a few more options with growing things...
Aw really? I was up in Manley last month and it's got some great potential. You could grow something there, right? But yeah, not really. Have you looked into the Petersville area?
Aw really? I was up in Manley last month and it's got some great potential. You could grow something there, right? But yeah, not really. Have you looked into the Petersville area?
Some things, but not everything I want to grow. I've found some people have gotten Norway maples to grow in Southcentral, and I suspect butternuts may work too.
I'm aiming for something fairly isolated. Like my land was in Manley. Well away from any real city, and only a tiny village several miles away, in the unorganized borough (no taxes). And somewhere with good game populations.
Some things, but not everything I want to grow. I've found some people have gotten Norway maples to grow in Southcentral, and I suspect butternuts may work too.
I'm aiming for something fairly isolated. Like my land was in Manley. Well away from any real city, and only a tiny village several miles away, in the unorganized borough (no taxes). And somewhere with good game populations.
Petersville is similar to Manley in lots of ways (remote, sorta on the road system but not really), and I imagine you could make lots of birch syrup.
Whoa Ship now nobody has called you a "dumb lower 48er" so let's reign in the emotions and have a rational discussion. The social phenomenon which occurs when a primitive civilization is dominated (by force, coercion, etc) by a more prosperous civilization is at play here. The Inupiat do not want to return (as starlite9 mentioned) to sod houses, high infant mortality, disease, and certain early death. That fact is held in tension by a very real desire to keep their traditions, language, culture and history alive and in the memory of current and future generations.
Oil revenue is the lubrication in that tension. They cannot live as they do without it. And they cannot live without access to a thriving marine subsistence lifestyle either. So there is the rub. When you say "it's like people just don't matter anymore if there's money to be made" you're missing the point that those very people you are referring to benefit from the money being made--though perhaps not to the degree they would like.
As for preserving Inupiat culture: that is not in the purview of white America. It is something the Inupiat must (and do!) look after for themselves. But believe me when I say--and I know many natives including some Athabascans in my own family--by and large they do not yearn for the days when Eskimos would kill them (and vice versa) sight on scene. Theirs was an unimaginably rough life. Though it has its problems I'm sure, Point Hope is a better place today.
Gawd I just know someone's gonna get riled up over this post.
Well; the easiest way to strip a culture of its values is to take away its language. And that is exactly what the federal government did to all the people of these Inupiaq villages. They took them out of the villages and sent them all off to school and made sure they were taught english.
This is why none of the youth in any of the Inupiaq villages can speak their language. The missionaries would slap the parents across the face; You cannot speak Inupiaq. You must speak English Only.
Well; the easiest way to strip a culture of its values is to take away its language. And that is exactly what the federal government did to all the people of these Inupiaq villages. They took them out of the villages and sent them all off to school and made sure they were taught english.
This is why none of the youth in any of the Inupiaq villages can speak their language. The missionaries would slap the parents across the face; You cannot speak Inupiaq. You must speak English Only.
ummm...did the Federal Gov. send the missionaries to Alaska??? In all the old books on Alaska I have not seen that it was a federal program that did this....it was the church all on it's own....please direct me to a source to see what government program funded this....the trade and herding of animals I am aware of.....I will unpack some of my books too~
I'm sorry,Ship, but I find that comment to be patronizing. I know you care, but you are lumping the entire Inupiat people and their culture into one monolithic entity. I have only been here a little over a month, and I can safely say that isn't fair. I am slowly learning, but in doing so, I have learned that it is important to try not to judge through a Western cultural lens.
What I have noticed, is that the influx of western culture and dividends has already changed things a lot up here (based partially on what I have read). I see some families that have found ways to protect their cultural values and are figuring out how to get through rapid changes. I see families that struggle with it. I have also noticed that any culture that goes through rapid changes and an influx of a radically different culture needs to figure it out for themselves. I don't think Inupiats want "white" folks telling them what they need and don't need or how they should feel about their own culture and land. As much as you care, you are caring though a Western cultural lens. I try to sit back and try to understand, but even so, I don't think we can truly ever shed our primary culture.
Back to the topic at hand, Statoil is going to be here on Friday to report on results from a Chukchi Sea health study and I think, seismic study. I am going to the meeting to learn. I am curious about the process and how people feel about it. I am also doing a group project in one of my classes about analyzing offshore oil leases, so that is a bonus.
First of all, it was (as I'm sure you know) not intended to be patronizing. Second of all, I have no "cultural lens" to look through other than a Western one. That is what I have known all my life, and you too. Hell, you said it yourself, you haven't been there all that long. Now I don't mean to say that you don't know more about it than I do, because how could I know a lot of this stuff firsthand without ever having been there? The point I was making is that the Inupiaq people ARE being lumped into one group, and they are NOT getting to speak for themselves very much. They get to speak for themselves at meetings and whatever, but I very highly doubt that is given any serious consideration at an oil company's meeting when they make the decision to drill or not to drill.
Obviously things are already changed a lot up there, and there is no reversing it. Nor should there be. But what you are accusing me of doing is the very thing that all these pro-oil people are doing: making decisions FOR the Inupiaq people. As you said, they don't want white folks telling them what to do and what to care about, and yet that is exactly what is being done no matter how this issue is approached. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't, that's what it seems like to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticState
Whoa Ship now nobody has called you a "dumb lower 48er" so let's reign in the emotions and have a rational discussion. The social phenomenon which occurs when a primitive civilization is dominated (by force, coercion, etc) by a more prosperous civilization is at play here. The Inupiat do not want to return (as starlite9 mentioned) to sod houses, high infant mortality, disease, and certain early death. That fact is held in tension by a very real desire to keep their traditions, language, culture and history alive and in the memory of current and future generations.
Oil revenue is the lubrication in that tension. They cannot live as they do without it. And they cannot live without access to a thriving marine subsistence lifestyle either. So there is the rub. When you say "it's like people just don't matter anymore if there's money to be made" you're missing the point that those very people you are referring to benefit from the money being made--though perhaps not to the degree they would like.
As for preserving Inupiat culture: that is not in the purview of white America. It is something the Inupiat must (and do!) look after for themselves. But believe me when I say--and I know many natives including some Athabascans in my own family--by and large they do not yearn for the days when Eskimos would kill them (and vice versa) sight on scene. Theirs was an unimaginably rough life. Though it has its problems I'm sure, Point Hope is a better place today.
Gawd I just know someone's gonna get riled up over this post.
I was making that statement preemptively because there are plenty of people who have done it in the past.
I see your point, but what everyone is always saying is that the only way these folks can have money is through oil. That's not necessarily true. That's how they've had money so far, but oil money isn't necessarily the reason they have lower mortality rates, etc., oil money is the reason they are the only area of bush Alaska that gets paved roads over the tundra. This money isn't going towards basic things that help these people exclusively; a lot of it is going towards greed and unnecessary things like roads on the tundra, big payouts for Native Corporations, etc.
Look at the Yup'ik in the Y-K Delta. There's no oil money in those villages down there - hence the reason they have boardwalks between buildings instead of big, wide roads - and yet their quality of life has improved as well. They now have access to things like internet, phones, etc., etc. My point is that the North Slope Borough oil money is not necessarily the lifeblood of these communities, as far as I can see, it's just extra money for things that aren't all that necessary.
I don't want this post to come off like I know everything about this issue; all I am doing is stating my own opinions on the matter. If this oil money lwas necessary for the quality of life of these Eskimos, then why is it that the Yup'ik, who have no oil money, aren't dropping like flies? I just think that people tout this oil money as "necessary", when it's really a luxury enjoyed by the North Slope villages. And culturally, the Inupiaq of the North Slope are worse off than the Yup'ik as well, having almost completely lost their language. I just don't think this oil money has done as much good for the people of the North Slope as some would have us believe, that's all.
What paved roads across the tundra ????????? I've never seen one anyplace.
The Inupiat people do not receive any money from the Oil companies !!
I guess I'm stupid because I am not aware of any of these statements as being factual. That's Ok !!
I am learning !! (HOW to keep my kewl)
Last edited by SityData; 10-26-2011 at 07:35 PM..
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