U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Alaska
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-07-2011, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,271 posts, read 8,045,904 times
Reputation: 3194

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2 View Post
I never said that all that support is not nessicary I just dont think the "after separation" bennifits should be the same for everyone. thoes involved in DIRECT combat and exposed to the greatest risk or that were actually injured in combat should recieve these huge separation/retirement bennies all the rest should have a 401k and the tax payer should be off the hook once they are no longer in uniform.

Military pensions are costing us WAY to much money to support long after they are done with their job. If you were injured in combat defending this nation thats different, this nation owes you. But if you just did you job and got out (separtion/retirement) then you just get your 401k and thats it.

Its the same with some of these plush gov job retirement bennies, the tax payer simply can not afford it any longer. Not to mention the welfare and illegals (but I think they are a burden largly to local gov's).
You keep confusing the military with Government jobs. They have nothing in commonly other than the source of money is by the Taxpayer.

You have a lot of valid issues with one and are not grasping the other. The military is mandated by the Constitution, Civil Servants aren't. About as easy as I can make it.

I retired from Federal Civil Service and I can tell you my job could have been done by a contractor at half the price, but it won't happen. I was very willing to take the pay they offered, as do most that work in that system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-07-2011, 12:40 AM
 
4,540 posts, read 2,475,161 times
Reputation: 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
You keep confusing the military with Government jobs. They have nothing in commonly other than the source of money is by the Taxpayer.

You have a lot of valid issues with one and are not grasping the other. The military is mandated by the Constitution, Civil Servants aren't. About as easy as I can make it.

I retired from Federal Civil Service and I can tell you my job could have been done by a contractor at half the price, but it won't happen. I was very willing to take the pay they offered, as do most that work in that system.
Just becuase the military is requried does not mean we have to keep paying them after they separate, THAT is the issue, not the fact that we have a military, I dont know how to make that any more clear.

The MILITARY RETIREMENTS are THE issue. I have no issue with funding F-22's, air craft carriers, military pay, etc, etc. Its the RETIREMENT bennies I have a problem with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2011, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Palmer
2,492 posts, read 4,006,137 times
Reputation: 1248
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
I can tell you my job could have done by a contractor at half the price, but it won't happen.
I just talked to a contractor yesterday who works on JBER. He said exactly the same thing. Private contractors would be able to do the work faster, better, and for less money. He works along side civil servants there and the difference in work ethic and efficiency is so obvious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2011, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Palmer
2,492 posts, read 4,006,137 times
Reputation: 1248
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2 View Post
Just becuase the military is requried does not mean we have to keep paying them after they separate, THAT is the issue, not the fact that we have a military, I dont know how to make that any more clear.

The MILITARY RETIREMENTS are THE issue. I have no issue with funding F-22's, air craft carriers, military pay, etc, etc. Its the RETIREMENT bennies I have a problem with.
I partially agree with you. I don't think people who retire from the military should be able to get a civil service job while they are collecting retirement. I think they should have to work for private industry...doing the same thing but not working a second job for the government. That one change would save billions of dollars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2011, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,062 posts, read 14,697,640 times
Reputation: 8432
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2 View Post
Just becuase the military is requried does not mean we have to keep paying them after they separate, THAT is the issue, not the fact that we have a military, I dont know how to make that any more clear.

The MILITARY RETIREMENTS are THE issue. I have no issue with funding F-22's, air craft carriers, military pay, etc, etc. Its the RETIREMENT bennies I have a problem with.
I just don't understand your point. Lets say that I work for a private company in the US and then retire after 20 or 30 years. Don't I receive a retirement pension? The same goes for active duty military members, civilians working for the military, or a government worker. If any of them retires, he or she receives a pension, just like a worker in the private sector.

How about the work you do? Lets say that you work and then retire. Should you receive a pension?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2011, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,271 posts, read 8,045,904 times
Reputation: 3194
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2 View Post
Just becuase the military is requried does not mean we have to keep paying them after they separate, THAT is the issue, not the fact that we have a military, I dont know how to make that any more clear.

The MILITARY RETIREMENTS are THE issue. I have no issue with funding F-22's, air craft carriers, military pay, etc, etc. Its the RETIREMENT bennies I have a problem with.

So what is the incentive to work at food stamp wages without the carrot of retirement? Sure you can draft kids at 18 and pay them less than mimium wage. I think I started at $289.00 a month. I got out as E-6 with seven years and still qualified for food stamps. President Carter and the Democrats were trying to change the time you could draw retirement to 65 years old.

There was no way I would subject my family to a tad better than Welfare wages til I was 38 and the try to find work in the "Real World", had I stayed the twenty years, the retirement pay would have been $1,200.00 a Month had I stayed E-6, E-7 wasn't much more.

People were bailing out of the military because of Carter's stupid attempt to screw the military. You can't have an effective Military without experienced
people. Reagan was elected and stopped the drain of experience and increased the pay, still not up to the civilian world, but better than it was.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2011, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
3,494 posts, read 9,735,792 times
Reputation: 1270
yep. thats why i work where i do, i couldnt make this money in the private sector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Are you aware that I spent over 20 years in the active duty military? I already know how military life is. Also, I am working on my second retirement with the State. I tried several times to explain to you some of the differences between the military and State jobs, but I don't think I got through

A lot of the Federal jobs are good, too, and better than active duty military members. You can even have unions if you want too. In fact by average, Federal Government workers make a lot more than workers in the private sector. The private sector workers are the ones being screwed for the past two years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2011, 02:49 PM
 
4,540 posts, read 2,475,161 times
Reputation: 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
So what is the incentive to work at food stamp wages without the carrot of retirement? Sure you can draft kids at 18 and pay them less than mimium wage. I think I started at $289.00 a month. I got out as E-6 with seven years and still qualified for food stamps. President Carter and the Democrats were trying to change the time you could draw retirement to 65 years old.

There was no way I would subject my family to a tad better than Welfare wages til I was 38 and the try to find work in the "Real World", had I stayed the twenty years, the retirement pay would have been $1,200.00 a Month had I stayed E-6, E-7 wasn't much more.

People were bailing out of the military because of Carter's stupid attempt to screw the military. You can't have an effective Military without experienced
people. Reagan was elected and stopped the drain of experience and increased the pay, still not up to the civilian world, but better than it was.
When I looked at the military pay chart PLUS untaxed BAH, covered medical, etc no one but E-4 and below were making food stamp wages. The reason you qualify for food stamps is because your med bennies and BAH, BAC are not totaled into that. Your pay check is basicly for food and toys/family because the rest of your nessicities are covered by the military. If you cant get above E-4 in the miliary in a timely manner then your better off in the military anyways because you would make less at mcdonalds with no BAH and no bennies

No civilian working in the private sector gets a pension anymore and we sure as heck dont have 1500$/month in untaxed BAH, your lucky if you get anything more than catastropic medical insurance, my deductable is 1200$ a year because I would have to pay full group rate for normal insurance at my company.

One thing I do agree with is the military is cutting personel and using more contractors, that way the people in uniform are thoes that are deployable and the contractors do all the payroll, engineering, etc. The total number of people in uniform really does not need to be large, thoes on boats, and thoes in the army that are deployable, and the air force and army could probably be combined and be much leaner and meaner and remove a layer of bearuocrocy.

There are alot of things that could be done but to many are on the dole and dont want things changed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2011, 02:51 PM
 
4,540 posts, read 2,475,161 times
Reputation: 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTAM View Post
yep. thats why i work where i do, i couldnt make this money in the private sector.
I make more in the private sector than I could ever make in the gov, I sometimes think gov work is for people with no real skills to make good money by skimming tax money off the top from the productive members of society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2011, 05:05 PM
 
178 posts, read 121,784 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTAM View Post
yep. thats why i work where i do, i couldnt make this money in the private sector.

I have got to know what field you are in . . . Because I make about 60% of what I could make in the private sector working for the government. As a matter of fact, I took over a $10,000 pay cut to go back to working for the govt. Granted, I had personal reasons for moving to Alaska and taking the job I did . . . But don't tell me thegovt. pays more than the private sector. For skilled professions . . . Never has, never will.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Alaska
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:41 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top