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Old 06-16-2012, 11:05 PM
 
3,619 posts, read 2,603,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
Actually, Palin never said those words. Palin really said "You can see Russia from Parts of Alaska", which is a factually accurate statement.

It was Tina Fey on SNL that said "I can see Russia from my house." And of course the professional LIARS in the media went on to perpetuate the myth that it came directly from Palin (to help boost their pet, Obama naturally).

And as you clearly point out, the real intent of the statement was to demonstrate an actual point - of how closely inteconnected Alaska is with Russia. But of course that touch of common sense is entirely out of reach of the average consumer of mass media in this society.
I agree it has been misattributed to Sarah Palin. But the thing is the basic message was gotten across in the Tina Fey clip. Sarah Palin's basic contention was that because her state bordered Russia, she had foreign policy experience. So "I can see Russia from my house" is an exaggeration of her message but still adequately gets the basic message across.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Kamchatka, Russia
2,737 posts, read 1,753,713 times
Reputation: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Yes - Russia has contributed twice in the defense of their Fatherland - and has in so doing, saved the United States from possible European invasion - you are also correct that most common Russians have never hated America - this is why many Russian defectors came to America - and it is so that the predominate R$ussian policy over the last 120 years - has been not through the people - but by their government - whether it was by the Communist Party - or the supposed democratic republic.

Russia will likely never be able to host a true republic - they are too wedded to the past.
I spoke about Russia's assistance to America at the request of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Russia helped to two times his fleet to prevent the attack of the English and French on America
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:39 PM
 
Location: ... wish u were here.
2,223 posts, read 1,869,303 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
... Russia will likely never be able to host a true republic - they are too wedded to the past.
Sorry, You are mistaken. It is not devotion to the past, but the respect for the history which can't prevent democracy development. Well, I'd like to say also "it is not necessary to measure everyone by one measure".

Last edited by Лютый; 06-17-2012 at 12:35 AM..
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,862 posts, read 11,550,256 times
Reputation: 6292
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You can question to all? why Americana have always thought and think that the USSR or Russia ever wanted to attack America and the Russians hate and hate the Americans? Simple people in the USSR or Russia N don'T EVER GOING to ATTACK AMERICA. On the CONTRARY, RUSSIA has Saved America 2 times From the attack of Europeans in America. And Never Russians do not Hate Americans have always thought of them as the same as we are.
I do not think that the American people ever hated the Russian people. What Americans hate is a government that restricts liberty, including our own. Both the USSR and China were communist, but China was not expanding into other countries (except for Tibet), and the USSR was expanding into other countries and restricting their liberty in a big way. We fought against the USSR during the Cold War to preserve liberty, not because we hated the Russian people.
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,862 posts, read 11,550,256 times
Reputation: 6292
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
I spoke about Russia's assistance to America at the request of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Russia helped to two times his fleet to prevent the attack of the English and French on America
Not exactly. The American colonies started trading with Russia in 1763, even though it violated British law. Russian products such as hemp, sail linen and iron were arriving in colonial ports years before the American Revolution began and did not stop once the war started. It was Catherine II decision to continue trade with the American colonies, remain officially neutral during the American revolution, refuse Britain's requests for military assistance, and insist on peace talks that linked a resolution of the American Revolution with the settlement of separate European conflicts.

Catherine II wanted an independent America because it was good for business. She could have cut off trade with the American colonies and provided England with military assistance, which would certainly have hindered the American Revolution, but doing nothing is not the same as providing assistance.

The same is true during the Civil War. Russia did indeed send a sizable fleet in 1863 to fight on behalf of the Union. However, that Russian fleet parked itself in New York, where it was in no danger of being attacked, and never fired a shot for an entire year before leaving. Sending a fleet that does nothing is not really assistance either.
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,010 posts, read 9,963,267 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Not exactly. The American colonies started trading with Russia in 1763, even though it violated British law. Russian products such as hemp, sail linen and iron were arriving in colonial ports years before the American Revolution began and did not stop once the war started. It was Catherine II decision to continue trade with the American colonies, remain officially neutral during the American revolution, refuse Britain's requests for military assistance, and insist on peace talks that linked a resolution of the American Revolution with the settlement of separate European conflicts.

Catherine II wanted an independent America because it was good for business. She could have cut off trade with the American colonies and provided England with military assistance, which would certainly have hindered the American Revolution, but doing nothing is not the same as providing assistance.

The same is true during the Civil War. Russia did indeed send a sizable fleet in 1863 to fight on behalf of the Union. However, that Russian fleet parked itself in New York, where it was in no danger of being attacked, and never fired a shot for an entire year before leaving. Sending a fleet that does nothing is not really assistance either.
They should have sent their fleet to New Orleans or Charleston - then it might have done some good.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,010 posts, read 9,963,267 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
I spoke about Russia's assistance to America at the request of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Russia helped to two times his fleet to prevent the attack of the English and French on America
You spoke of the "Russian people" and the fact that they don't hate America. Well guess what? You are right. The Russian people do not hate America and neither do the American people or even our federal government hate or have ever hated Russia. On the contrary, I as an American, have a great affinity for the Russian language(which I am learning - and will no doubt appreciate better when I can read some literature in the native language), literature, music, Russian people and their culture, and am also very aware and appreciative of the role Russia has played in world events during the past 600+ years.

It is the former Soviet Union communist ideology, opposition to freedom, and intent of spreading their worldview over the planet which led to the hostilities between Russia and the U.S.A. in the late 20th Century. I am well aware that many Russians view the Cold War quite differently and paint it as Western imperialism. That is fine - to have different opinions on such a fundamental state of affairs for 45 years. However - to insinuate that Americans think that the Russian people hated America or that that Russia hated America - is to be a tool of the politicians who engineered the mutual distrust of our two nations. These our geopolitical questions - which have very little to do with what the "common people" think.

Did both Russia and America fear a nuclear attack from each other for a long time. Yes. Is their still a mutual distrust of the other among most aware people - yes. However, this is not based on hatred of individual people or standing cultures, but on the record of events implemented by politicians who manipulated people to achieve desired outcomes for gain - personal or national.

The point is that the history between Russia and the United States over the past 230 or so years is much more complicated then the conclusion that "we hated each other".

That conclusion is simply not true.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,010 posts, read 9,963,267 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Лютый View Post
Sorry, You are mistaken. It is not devotion to the past, but the respect for the history which can't prevent democracy development. Well, I'd like to say also "it is not necessary to measure everyone by one measure".
I admire your optimism for the future of your country - and I wish I could share it.

May your vision become reality.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Anchorage
4,043 posts, read 5,339,220 times
Reputation: 2206
Just curious why is an American telling a Russian how the Russians felt?

On a side note, having grown up during the Cold War, I was never afraid of Russian people, just the politicians on both sides.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,010 posts, read 9,963,267 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrien View Post
Just curious why is an American telling a Russian how the Russians felt?

On a side note, having grown up during the Cold War, I was never afraid of Russian people, just the politicians on both sides.
The bolded is the message that I was trying to convey.

I apologize if it got diluted.
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