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Old 02-12-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Plover, WI
419 posts, read 413,237 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
No. Just go ahead and tell me how you can get in the mind of a person who is already dead.

Do you really believe that you can "see" the perspective of another person just by reading his very few notes written on a notebook? If that were the case, then you would know the life of avery one of us posting in this forum
Perspective can be gained by what the person left behind, how they acted, the people they knew, etc. No one will ever completely be in another's mind, but you sure as hell can make a movie from a different perspective. Everything would be an autobiography otherwise.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
12,906 posts, read 13,843,668 times
Reputation: 8315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben242000 View Post
Perspective can be gained by what the person left behind, how they acted, the people they knew, etc. No one will ever completely be in another's mind, but you sure as hell can make a movie from a different perspective. Everything would be an autobiography otherwise.
from a different perspective. Yes, that's right: from a different perspective, but not from the perspective if a dead (or alive) person, and that's what I said before.

One's perceptions of others is as real as one's imagination. If one's perceptions would be true, this would be admissible in court (for example).

Here is another perspective for you:
http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-12-2012 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,011 posts, read 9,535,003 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
from a different perspective. Yes, that's right: from a different perspective, but not from the perspective if a dead (or alive) person, and that's what I said before.

One's perceptions of others is as real as one's imagination. If one's perceptions would be true, this would be admissible in court (for example).

Here is another perspective for you:
http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf
So apparently you find much of history a figment of historians imagination. Wow.

Courts often do take judical notice of historical facts. These facts are derived from the perspective of a historian who has studied the period, person, civilization. I think yuou need to educate yourself on the methodoligies of historical research and law procedure before making such asinine statements.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
12,906 posts, read 13,843,668 times
Reputation: 8315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
So apparently you find much of history a figment of historians imagination. Wow.

Courts often do take judical notice of historical facts. These facts are derived from the perspective of a historian who has studied the period, person, civilization. I think yuou need to educate yourself on the methodoligies of historical research and law procedure before making such asinine statements.
We are talking about perceptions, or about history? True history is a compilation of events, perceptions aren't. But lets say that you are right and I am wrong, so tell me what you think about this "history"
http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf

By the way, what do you think of history compared to perceptions?
http://www.unf.edu/~clifford/craft/what.htm

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-12-2012 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,011 posts, read 9,535,003 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
We are talking about perceptions, or about history? True history is a compilation of events, perceptions aren't. But lets say that you are right and I am wrong, so tell me what you think about this "history"
http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf

By the way, what do you think of history compared to perceptions?
What Is History?
My goodness! We are discussing whether or not an accurate documentary can be made from a few primary sources(journals, first person accounts, ect...) and you bring in a secondary opinion piece and try to call it history?

Perceptions do come into play when history is written. Often the data is incomplete and a historian must fill in the blanks. You said that perceptions are often imaginary and the topic at the time was the data available to write the book and make the movie. You argued that the data was incomplete. You are exactly right. This does not mean that the story cannot be told and to argue otherwise would invalidate much of history that is recorded.

Apparently you think that history is invalid based on the contents of the second link.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
12,906 posts, read 13,843,668 times
Reputation: 8315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
My goodness! We are discussing whether or not an accurate documentary can be made from a few primary sources(journals, first person accounts, ect...) and you bring in a secondary opinion piece and try to call it history?
Apparently you think that history is invalid based on the contents of the second link.
Perceptions do come into play when history is written. Often the data is incomplete and a historian must fill in the blanks. You said that perceptions are often imaginary and the topic at the time was the data available to write the book and make the movie. You argued that the data was incomplete. You are exactly right. This does not mean that the story cannot be told and to argue otherwise would invalidate much of history that is recorded.
A documentary can be made from the perceptions of others as well as one's perceptions, but perceptions aren't necessarily true. Perceptions are the way each person "sees" (feels) something, but while perceptions are used to write history, history and perceptions aren't the same thing. And no, I posted the first link to show you what the Park Ranger official's "perceptions" are in relation to McCandles and his ordeal. In fact, if you read the article, the author refers to his "perceptions" relating to MacCandles.

Yes, perceptions come into play when anything is written, spoken, or just shown on TV (for example). But still, every person perceives the something in a different way, and that's the reason why you and I continue arguing about this nonsense. The second link, from an educational institution, gives you a hint relating to what history most times is. If every one of us in this forum would perceive things identically, then we would not disagree about the book, about MacCandles, nor about the movie.

Would it be nice if couples would perceive everything in life identically? That would be the end of divorce. By the way, your perceptions are leading you to believe that I believe "the data was incomplete," for I have never said such.

That the book and movie are both riddled with fantasy, and that MacCandles was an idiot, these are my perceptions.

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-12-2012 at 06:29 PM..
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Plover, WI
419 posts, read 413,237 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
from a different perspective. Yes, that's right: from a different perspective, but not from the perspective if a dead (or alive) person, and that's what I said before.

One's perceptions of others is as real as one's imagination. If one's perceptions would be true, this would be admissible in court (for example).

Here is another perspective for you:
http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf
I'm sorry, but you are acting foolish and I have no interest in continuing this. Maybe you have such a hard time thinking of Chris's or another person's perspective, because you spend so much time on your own.
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Old 02-12-2012, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
12,906 posts, read 13,843,668 times
Reputation: 8315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben242000 View Post
I'm sorry, but you are acting foolish and I have no interest in continuing this. Maybe you have such a hard time thinking of Chris's or another person's perspective, because you spend so much time on your own.
I didn't write this, but I agree with his perceptions of McCandles:
Quote:
http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf

When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful.
Quote:
No experienced backcountry person would travel during the month of April. It is a time of transition from winter’s frozen rivers and hard packed snow with good traveling conditions into spring’s quagmire of mud and raging waters where even small creeks become impassible. Hungry bears come out of their dens with just one thing in mind— eating.
Furthermore, Chris McCandless poached a moose and then wasted it. He killed a magnificent animal superbly conditioned to survive the rigors of the Alaskan wild then, inexperienced in how to preserve meat without refrigeration (the Eskimos and Indians do it to this day), he watched 1500 pounds of meat rot away in front of him. He’s lucky the stench didn’t bring a grizzly bear to end his suffering earlier. And in the end, the moose died for nothing.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,272 posts, read 7,757,961 times
Reputation: 3188
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben242000 View Post
I'm sorry, but you are acting foolish and I have no interest in continuing this. Maybe you have such a hard time thinking of Chris's or another person's perspective, because you spend so much time on your own.
OK, your enamored with Chris... Got that!

Then what did he do right in your view?
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,272 posts, read 7,757,961 times
Reputation: 3188
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobwilliam77 View Post
Walt McCandless, father of Chris McCandless, traveled back to Bus 142, where his son died in 1992, in March 2011. He and his wife Billie, guided by Fairbanks adventurer Ed Plumb, brought friends to the bus to celebrate the completion of Back to the Wild, a book of Chris's photos.


Walt McCandless visits Bus 142 - YouTube


Billie McCandless visits Bus 142 - YouTube

That is all nice...

Most parents want to go to the scene where their child died for closure, be it the bus, an intersection where someone ran a red light or other such places. That is human nature.

In Chris's case, he got run over by himself...
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