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Old 02-22-2012, 09:12 PM
 
Location: "Out there" in Alaska.
305 posts, read 316,657 times
Reputation: 467

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Interesting. Considering we're exporting oil because we're told there's no demand for it in the U.S., the price on a barrel is bogus. Add that to the mill closures, the logging shutdowns, and all the other baloney the U.S. populace supposedly supports and the question poses itself: Why aren't we selling all of this stuff to ourselves instead of trying to sell it outside our borders? I don't think any of us would complain if, instead of shipping our petroleum products overseas, we just refined it and used it ALL ourselves. Same with food, same with manufactured goods. Why aren't we supporting ourselves? Who's in charge, anyway? It would be interesting if someone could refrain from spouting the same old spoon-fed drivel of "because" and just thought out and returned to the self-sufficiency of the United States.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,067 posts, read 14,744,731 times
Reputation: 8443
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyAuke View Post
What? The pulp mill closed in Ketchikan because the contract wasn't renewed- that much you are correct on. But you have conveniently left out that this happened right after Ketchikan Pulp Company was brought up on felony charges for dumping highly toxic waste right into Ward Cove, in direct violation of their permits. They broke the law, the feds didn't renew their contract. Nobody here was happy to see the pulp mill close, but would you go back to the doctor you had just successfully sued for malpractice?
If I well remember Tony Knowles was the AK governor then. As for the toxic waste, I have no idea about it. But my main point is that the logging contracts should still have been renewed.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/25/us...or-impact.html

http://labor.alaska.gov/trends/trendspdf/jan01.pdf

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-23-2012 at 12:06 AM..
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Anchorage
4,045 posts, read 5,455,669 times
Reputation: 2207
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyAuke View Post
What? The pulp mill closed in Ketchikan because the contract wasn't renewed- that much you are correct on. But you have conveniently left out that this happened right after Ketchikan Pulp Company was brought up on felony charges for dumping highly toxic waste right into Ward Cove, in direct violation of their permits. They broke the law, the feds didn't renew their contract. Nobody here was happy to see the pulp mill close, but would you go back to the doctor you had just successfully sued for malpractice?
I found this court document on the mill.

#123 Ketchikan Pulp Co. Pleads Guilty to Environmental Crimes
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,067 posts, read 14,744,731 times
Reputation: 8443
DEC - Contaminated Sites Program - Site Summary - Ketchikan Pulp Corporation
Quote:
Current Status
The Ward Cove Mill Site can be safely occupied and used for commercial and industrial activities and has been given "conditional closure" status, or "No Further Remedial Action Planned." At this writing, sixteen tenants currently hold on-site leases for various uses. Permanent controls are in place to ensure long-term protection of human health and the environment by preventing any future exposure to contamination and limit or prohibit activities which may interfere with the integrity of remedial actions. These "institutional controls" (see our glossary) are legal or administrative remedies, and they are summarized below:

Uplands area: Land use is presently restricted to commercial/industrial, except for the water pipeline access road where it is designated recreational. Groundwater use is not allowed. Future excavation or demolition activities require coordination with DEC to ensure proper sampling, characterization, and management of any contaminated soil that is found. An arsenic management plan limits human exposure to naturally-occurring arsenic found in site soils.
Marine area: Institutional controls were chosen to protect and enhance bottom-dwelling organisms in Ward Cove. The selected remedy includes a combination of thin-layer capping, placement of clean sediment mounds, dredging, removal of sunken logs in areas to be dredged, and natural recovery where capping or mounding is impractical. Any person who damages these caps or mounds shall be required, at EPA's discretion, to repair the damages.
----------------

Back to Alaska 5 years from now: we first have to make it through this year, and it looks that it will soon be very tough on people in the interior with the high price of gasoline and heating fuel. There will be a lot of people riding their bicycles and motorcycles this summer
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:36 AM
 
3,943 posts, read 4,366,639 times
Reputation: 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by tidelines View Post
Interesting. Considering we're exporting oil because we're told there's no demand for it in the U.S., the price on a barrel is bogus. Add that to the mill closures, the logging shutdowns, and all the other baloney the U.S. populace supposedly supports and the question poses itself: Why aren't we selling all of this stuff to ourselves instead of trying to sell it outside our borders? I don't think any of us would complain if, instead of shipping our petroleum products overseas, we just refined it and used it ALL ourselves. Same with food, same with manufactured goods. Why aren't we supporting ourselves? Who's in charge, anyway? It would be interesting if someone could refrain from spouting the same old spoon-fed drivel of "because" and just thought out and returned to the self-sufficiency of the United States.
We sell to the highest bidder... It would be political suicide to say that though. When was the last time something we did was decided on how logical it was. That is not the #1 question we ask when doing something.

(BTW, I happen to agree with your post)
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:54 AM
 
811 posts, read 607,340 times
Reputation: 313
I think the US should take care of our own at home first, just like the old days. Screw the rest of the world. Create jobs, for the ones out of work, help the needy/homeless (many have had no choice just lost all), drill and refine our own oil, gas, build some more Nuclear plants. Bring the troops home and let the middle east destroy and kill each other , they been doing it for 1000's of years. Left and right come together and be DAM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN.

We seen last election the country is divided. (not good)

If not all the above will get worse, more jobs will leave, more homeless, more crime, etc. If the US keeps on the same track as it has been in the next 5, 10 years it is going to be ugly. I don't want to see the US as the next tent city or 3rd world county. Goggle "Tent Cites" you will be floored at the ones already in the us. Zoom in on goggle an it will blow your mind. This is all in the last 5 years. I don't blame the left or right for the problem. There is a big problem in the US and it needs to get fixed.

Some of the largest group of the new "Homesteaders" are the younger crowd, many say why go to college when I can't get a job.

God Bless The USA!!!!
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:20 PM
 
Location: "Out there" in Alaska.
305 posts, read 316,657 times
Reputation: 467
Why don't we have a political representative that thinks like that if he/she is supposed to represent us? Don't most of us think like that - wanting America to be self-sufficient?
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:39 PM
 
3,943 posts, read 4,366,639 times
Reputation: 1711
Now that we have our own problems, we should be focusing on them first.... Help when we can as that is the "human" thing to do.

I don't like the fact that we are reliant on other countries to survive. We are in a precarious position because of it. I think Robin Williams had a great "speech" about that...
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,067 posts, read 14,744,731 times
Reputation: 8443
According to so reports from the American Petroleum Institute we would be self-sufficient within 12 years as long as we immediately start oil production plus importing oil from Canada. For example, if President Obama would not have vetoed the Keystone pipeline, plus stopping the export of oil overseas, we would have been self-sufficient 12 years from now.
American Petroleum Institute

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-24-2012 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: "Out there" in Alaska.
305 posts, read 316,657 times
Reputation: 467
Driving through Canada at night you can see wells burning off for miles and miles and miles. This continent should have sufficient reserves to support itself, two countries. Wonder what, if any, obligation Canada has to Great Britain for its resources?
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