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Old 03-18-2012, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Anchorage, AK
871 posts, read 660,325 times
Reputation: 609

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I don't think it's that simple.

Although I'm not in favor of forcing anyone to purchase insurance, if they get sick somebody pays unless they just lie there and die. In that event, someone will most likely pay for their burial.

We can either try to fix the health care mess or we can decide, as a society, that those without insurance can damn well live without health care. It really has come down to that.

What do people on tight budgets traditionally do when they need health care in the United States? Seems to me that they expect others to foot the bill for it. All the more reason for those on tight budgets to be insured.
Yes. It really has come down to that.

I am reminded of a conversation I had, I think six or seven years ago, with a woman who opposed health care reform. Her argument was that it was her money, and why should it be taken from her, in the form of higher taxes, to take care of people who are too irresponsible to get their own insurance. I was employed at the time, but like many, had no insurance. I tried and tried to explain to her how many working people have no safety net at all, when it comes to health care, but it fell on deaf ears. In the end, her money meant more to her than my life. This is how she thought of me, a friend. Can you imagine her attitude to a stranger?

The most ironic part? This woman spends many hours a week and a great deal of money supporting the pro-life movement.

God help those babies once they are born.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Midwest
5,101 posts, read 3,295,172 times
Reputation: 10459
Palin is one that should never be left unscripted, reading and getting it right might even be a challenge for her, much like it was for George W. Bush. She is certainly not a good 3rd party choice.

"What do people on tight budgets traditionally do when they need health care in the United States? Seems to me that they expect others to foot the bill for it".

When I didn't have insurance and had an accident and needed surgery, I paid the bill off over time. It took some time but I did it. Isn't that what others do too? I didn't expect anyone to foot the bill for me. The ones on medicaid, that in my opinion abuse the system by having child after child, do expect someone else to foot the bill for them. But I don't really think thats the mindset of responsible folks.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,049 posts, read 14,675,260 times
Reputation: 8429
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
If the USA was smart they would do exactly what Canada did almost 50 years ago and cut the cost of healthcare by two thirds. Completely socialize it. Make healthcare a service instead of an industry. With our cradle to the grave universal healthcare for all residents of Canada we spend just a bit over half of what the USA government already spends on the mishmash of programmes.

It will never happen of course for a few reasons. Number one, corporate profits are way more important in the USA than the well being of the people
Number two, I seriously doubt the ability of the American government to run such a system. There is too much corruption, shady dealing, theft and just general dishonesty in the country to deliver first class care at a low cost.
You are forgetting two or three important points:

a. Canada's population 50 years ago was quite small, and this is true even today. Socializing healthcare in the US today to cover would be very difficult simply because there is not enough money to pay for it. How much of your yearly taxes go to pay for healthcare in Canada, and how is your economy doing at the moment? Your economy is doing great, but ours is not.

b. The US population is around 311 million people, and nearly half of the US population does not pay taxes. How do you think that one-half of the US population can pay for the healthcare of 311 million people?

c. I have news for you: Corporate profits are the only thing that can keep corporations alive. In fact, profits are the only thing that can keep the private sector alive, and these include Canadian and US corporations (or any other businesses) operating in the US, Canada, and other countries. Also, unless you are self employed, you owe your paycheck to a corporation or individual somewhere in the private sector. Even governments or public sector workers depend on the private sector to survive. It's the workers in the private sector (tax payers) that make it possible for the Canadian and US governments to exist.
---------

And for those who want socialized medicine, there is some good news: if the US suffers an economic collapse, you can bet that we will have socialized medicine

Last edited by RayinAK; 03-18-2012 at 05:19 AM..
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
587 posts, read 532,711 times
Reputation: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I someone chooses not to drive a car, they simply don't drive a car.

If someone chooses not to have health insurance, someone still pays for it when they get sick or injured.
I think you are exactly right about this. But please notice that I said I was not arguing the merits of mandated health insurance coverage, I was attempting to show the fallacy of comparing mandated auto insurance to mandated health insurance.

It really is an apples to oranges comparison.

A choice and a mandate simply aren't comparable.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:26 AM
 
3,907 posts, read 4,338,198 times
Reputation: 1700
We seem to be at a crossroads in time, when the choices we make today will dictate how our future looks in a profound way.

Major industrialized countries are facing unprecedented problems concurrently. It used to be when one country was struggling, all the others were doing very well. I don't think any one country has the answer for this as I haven't heard anyone say XXXX is perfect. The answer relies in some "out of the box" thinking.

My thoughts on the government running health care sends chills up my back - not only for the potential for corruption and theft, but also because some government worker 1,000's of miles away is going to decide whether I get treatment or not. It will still be "unfair" as those that can afford treatment will just pay out of pocket, while those than can't won't be able to. There will be no "credit" and ability to pay off for treatment over time in that scenario. Already, a few of my friends without insurance (mostly non-US born friends) leave the US for medical care. It doesn't cost all that much to fly to a nearby country from here and the cost for medical care is 1/10 of what it is here. Medical tourism...

For years, people that live on the US/Mexican border go over to Mexico to pick up prescriptions...
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Anchorage
4,045 posts, read 5,440,432 times
Reputation: 2207
Whether you get treated for health care needs is often decided by another bureaucrat-now it's made by a rep from an insurance agent who is often rewarded for denying your claim based on economics and saving money for the insurance company. I've heard bonuses are based on saving money for the insurer-money that the patient has already paid every month in the faith that they were covered.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:04 PM
 
3,907 posts, read 4,338,198 times
Reputation: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrien View Post
I've heard bonuses are based on saving money for the insurer-money that the patient has already paid every month in the faith that they were covered.
I don't doubt that one bit.

Insurance Company - A corporation whose job it is to make sure that you do not use the services you paid for.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:15 PM
 
811 posts, read 604,007 times
Reputation: 313
Just look at it this way. The whole system in the country is broken and needs fixed. How they choose to do it is out of all our hands, don't matter who you vote for they all have faults.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,049 posts, read 14,675,260 times
Reputation: 8429
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrien View Post
Whether you get treated for health care needs is often decided by another bureaucrat-now it's made by a rep from an insurance agent who is often rewarded for denying your claim based on economics and saving money for the insurance company. I've heard bonuses are based on saving money for the insurer-money that the patient has already paid every month in the faith that they were covered.
When I need medical care I just go to the hospital, or clinic, and receive medical care. The hospital bills my insurance company, and depending on the treatment the insurance company pays 80% or 100% for the treatment. But there is "deductible" that I have to pay each year. I am with Bluecross/Blueshield of Alaska.

Bonuses are offered in all industries, and believe it or not in the public sector (local and federal governments). Yes, borough, city, State, members of Congress, and Federal employees receive bonuses. Something else about Congress: they shield themselves from a lot of the laws they create. For example, insider trading. And there is no way that members of Congress and other government officials will put themselves through any healthcare created for us the people.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:19 PM
 
3,907 posts, read 4,338,198 times
Reputation: 1700
You having an insurance company (BCBS) that pays 80-100% of the charged bill is great. I ued to have BCBS and loved it - it was too expensive for the county. We are now self-funded and AvMed runs it for us. AvMed pays about 40% - I see alot of write offs on the bills. And one hospital is suing AvMed for underpayment. Unfortunately, I know because I have been getting letters from the Attorney's representing the hospital... I was actually sent to a collection agency for the balance on one - they thought they would be slick about it, until I showed them the statement of benefits from AvMed and told them they needed to take it up with them.

Ray you make great points...
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