Minimum wage jobs in Alaska and self employment (Barrow, Kotzebue: home, school districts)

[Metlakatla]

When people have children to provide for, they will do what they have to do. I've heard that the welfare system is set up so that it's very difficult for people to get off of it - -if they make just a little too much money, they lose their benefits, while the small amount that they're earning isn't enough to get by on. I've seen the other side of it as well; generational welfare where people don't know any other way of life.

And SD, you've spent your time on welfare yourself, so get off your high horse.

[SityData]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

When people have children to provide for, they will do what they have to do. I've heard that the welfare system is set up so that it's very difficult for people to get off of it - -if they make just a little too much money, they lose their benefits, while the small amount that they're earning isn't enough to get by on. I've seen the other side of it as well; generational welfare where people don't know any other way of life.

And SD, you've spent SOME time on welfare yourself, so get off your high horse.

Yes that is absolutely TRUE. what's your point? I qualified after filling out countless forms and such. When I got laid off from work - instead of breaking the law and filing for unemployment (sarcasm) I filed for welfare.Again breaking the law ( more sarcasm).
I even smoked in my house- again breaking (your) laws of being a parent!

The IBEW had a member that used to publish a "Tramp Guide". "Tramping was slang for traveling around the country looking for work.

During the mid 90's Janet's IBEW web site HAD listings for all of the states and all the work for the whole country. This type of information still exists if you know where to look for it.

[Metlakatla]

My point, again, Eves, is that you know perfectly well why it isn't possible for some people to tramp all over the country looking for work, yet you blare incessantly that that is what they should do.

[SityData]

I thought I just made that point perfectly clear MET! I wasn't able to do it in the early 90's - but later I was - back on the road.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by SityData

I keep hearing - there are not enough jobs to go around!

I was faced with that same dilemma in the 60's- I had to travel to find work

I was faced with that same dilemma in the 70's- I had to travel to find work

I was faced with that same dilemma in the 80's- I had to travel to find work

I was faced with that same dilemma in the 90's- I had to travel to find work

I retired Feb of 2000 @ the young age of 50!

Nothing new about looking for work- GO WHERE THE WORK is!! Quite simple actually!! The occupy mindset wants everything handed to them on their terms.

Yes, you made it perfectly clear that you tramped all over looking for work at one time in your life, and then you went on welfare when it wasn't possible for you to continue to do so. And yet you rail that others should do something that you couldn't or wouldn't do yourself.

[Kashta]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

When people have children to provide for, they will do what they have to do. I've heard that the welfare system is set up so that it's very difficult for people to get off of it - -if they make just a little too much money, they lose their benefits, while the small amount that they're earning isn't enough to get by on. I've seen the other side of it as well; generational welfare where people don't know any other way of life.

It is very hard to get off of it. Low income housing, food stamps, medical, all depend on how much you make. If you start to make more, you start losing things...food stamps first, but that's okay because you just put a little of the actual money you're making into food, right? But with higher pay comes more SS taken out, more medicare, more taxes (assuming you aren't claiming 9 to keep from paying anything), so you're actually losing a bit. And the satisfaction of getting a raise is diluted by the fact that you really aren't any more ahead than you were before...so it disincentivizes you from trying for more raises.

But if you wind up making TOO much money (lol...like that'd happen. Most minimum wage jobs don't ever advance to making too much money), then you lose your low income housing, and THAT's where you start to panic. You can handle the loss of medical coverage; just don't go to the doctor. But you have to have a place to stay, hopefully you (and whatever family you're bringing with you) can crash at a friend's house, or you have an extended family you can turn to (who are probably poor as well). The only way to effectively escape welfare is to get a much higher rate of pay, immediately, so that you aren't stuck in that in-between state. There's no chance to save money either (unless you just stuff it in your mattress), that would be counted against you as well.

So, you get a lot of drug peddlers in low-income housing. It's easy, you get to keep the money (instead of losing it to food stamps), and since you obviously aren't going to report the income, you don't have to worry about losing your housing or medical either. And when you feel despair over how your life isn't getting any better, and how you're trapped in a situation that you can't see any way out of, you have a ready escape. Way too easy, and it's not because these people are lazy or bad, it's because poverty is ****ing depressing, and despair leeches motivation away.

An article on Decision Fatigue (I recommend reading the whole article, it's pretty fascinating) brings up an interesting point -

Shopping can be especially tiring for the poor, who have to struggle continually with trade-offs. Most of us in America won’t spend a lot of time agonizing over whether we can afford to buy soap, but it can be a depleting choice in rural India. Dean Spears, an economist at Princeton, offered people in 20 villages in Rajasthan in northwestern India the chance to buy a couple of bars of brand-name soap for the equivalent of less than 20 cents. It was a steep discount off the regular price, yet even that sum was a strain for the people in the 10 poorest villages. Whether or not they bought the soap, the act of making the decision left them with less willpower, as measured afterward in a test of how long they could squeeze a hand grip. In the slightly more affluent villages, people’s willpower wasn’t affected significantly. Because they had more money, they didn’t have to spend as much effort weighing the merits of the soap versus, say, food or medicine.

Spears and other researchers argue that this sort of decision fatigue is a major — and hitherto ignored — factor in trapping people in poverty. Because their financial situation forces them to make so many trade-offs, they have less willpower to devote to school, work and other activities that might get them into the middle class. It’s hard to know exactly how important this factor is, but there’s no doubt that willpower is a special problem for poor people. Study after study has shown that low self-control correlates with low income as well as with a host of other problems, including poor achievement in school, divorce, crime, alcoholism and poor health. Lapses in self-control have led to the notion of the “undeserving poor” — epitomized by the image of the welfare mom using food stamps to buy junk food — but Spears urges sympathy for someone who makes decisions all day on a tight budget. In one study, he found that when the poor and the rich go shopping, the poor are much more likely to eat during the shopping trip. This might seem like confirmation of their weak character — after all, they could presumably save money and improve their nutrition by eating meals at home instead of buying ready-to-eat snacks like Cinnabons, which contribute to the higher rate of obesity among the poor. But if a trip to the supermarket induces more decision fatigue in the poor than in the rich — because each purchase requires more mental trade-offs — by the time they reach the cash register, they’ll have less willpower left to resist the Mars bars and Skittles. Not for nothing are these items called impulse purchases.

When you're stressing over life and finances and making decisions that will heavily impact both, it's hard to see any legitimate opportunity. Regulations keep people from starting businesses unless they have licenses that cost money (and if it's contracting/skilled labor? Be ready to fork over even more, good luck with that), so poorer skilled people do work under the table and get fined/jailed if they get caught. Regulations 'protect' the general public from accidentally buying raw milk from someone they trust, so if you want to sell any from your healthy, pampered cow, you have to jump through expensive hoops to do so. In Alaska if I wanted to sell it, apparently (please correct me if I'm wrong) I'd have to sell it as 'not for human consumption' as well as tinting it a different color. And that's just a few examples, our hands are tied in so many ways that it's been made very very difficult to start ANYthing that a person could legally use to better their lives.

I bet if I tried the new equivalent of selling pet rocks right now, I'd have the IRS so far up my butt they'd be able to stop me from swallowing my lunch.

So people aren't deserving of contempt for being discouraged. I don't think more government intervention is desirable, quite the contrary, but just saying 'hey, get a job, stop being lazy' isn't desirable either. It's a dilemma, we have these problems and people who deserve at least our acceptance of their humanity and right to make a life for themselves. We need to ease the government out of our rights to live our lives without meddling (including our businesses, as long as they aren't defrauding people) at the same time as we're easing people off of welfare. Though I'm a bit stumped on how to accomplish that.

Oh and getting laid off isn't the same thing as having a low-paying job that isn't enough to live on. One is temporary, the other is a trap that's very hard to get out of, if it's combined with government 'help'.

[SityData]

Met - get a grip (really) I am not railing; I'm simply providing simple facts based on experience.

If I ever typed that I had a baby strapped to my back while working ?? YOU WOULD HAVE HAD ME CRUCIFIED

[SityData]

Move to Barrow or Kotzebue - you will have no problem finding a good paying job.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by SityData

Met - get a grip (really) I am not railing; I'm simply providing simple facts based on experience.

If I ever typed that I had a baby strapped to my back while working ?? YOU WOULD HAVE HAD ME CRUCIFIED

No, I wouldn't have, unless you'd been puffing on a cig at the time with the smoke blowing back in the baby's face.

[SityData]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

No, I wouldn't have, unless you'd been puffing on a cig at the time with the smoke blowing back in the baby's face.

working in a factory (canning facility) with a baby strapped to your back paints a terrible picture of child abuse!