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Old 02-09-2014, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,381 posts, read 11,383,458 times
Reputation: 3445

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Quote:
Originally Posted by caman View Post
I am not one of "those folks" and I'm not trying to imply that scams can't and don't take place, and it torques me when people misrepresent property to the gullible. Especially those bogus "road" pictures! I would never advise anyone to purchase property without standing on it first, either - that's just common sense. There is a ton of info on the web, too, and no real excuse for people who don't at least fact-check a sellers' claims.

I do take issue with the blanket statements you make about "marginal property", "bog land" and "stealing", for the simple reason that (as I already said) I was closely involved with creating some of these subdivisions and know that a lot of work went into identifying and offering decent land to Alaskans for residential and recreational uses. We tried our best to sell only the good stuff and to ensure that every single parcel had at least a couple of decent building sites on it. The fact remains that most Alaskans (and yes, I have been an Alaskan since 1979) didn't want them and so they were sold off to those who did. I would have preferred that they kept the requirement for only Alaskans to be able to buy them, but the state apparently needed/wanted the money.

Still, if something cost $2000 in 1980 there is no reason to expect it will still cost $2000 in 2014, and if I did want to sell my recreational property for a profit (fully disclosing its pros and cons) would that make me a "criminal" or "scammer"?

You are also perpetuating an image of these areas as "marginal land" and "worthless bog" which is not true (or at least the exception rather than the rule). In my view the most common problem a buyer would have would be getting to their property, not the quality of the land itself - for the reasons I already gave.

I don't think we disagree all that much, I just think you should not paint everyone with such a broad brush. There are legitimate sellers and buyers of remote Alaska property, and like everything else, the price is primarily based on supply and demand. And there is good land out there, as long as the sellers describe it accurately. A few bad operators shouldn't define the conversation.

And I'm sorry if my first post was a bit over the top.
Had you read my many posts correctly on the subject, there is a lot of really great land in Alaska, but there is a lot of really poor land as well. The poor land can be bought cheap over the counter from the State of Alaska, then in many cases, those that buy the cheap land, mark it up three or four times and sell it on the internet to people that want to have the Alaska dream, and the buyer doesn't know what they need to know so they are sold a bill of goods that isn't what the land is like. These marketers steal photos off the internet and show land that is nothing like what they are selling, in most cases, they haven't seen it either.

This is a photo I took of my lumber sled and snowmachine that was stolen to claimj it is part of the trail system to Deadman Lake, it is in fact on the way to Totek Lake and my cabin. This is just one of dozens of my photos I have taken that have been stolen to be used to sell land that is nowhere close to where the photos were taken.



I have bought remote land from the state, and it wasn't cheap verses the land that was in the swampy areas. It is good land with an outstanding view of Mt. McKinley and I built a cabin and runway on it.

Currently there is a listing on ebay that treads on the marginal of truth I refer to, there is no "Easy Access" as claimed unless you charter a float plane for summer access or snowmachine for winter access, there is no road system to the area, you can drive to Manley, but you have to cross some major wet areas to access the lake. I have other issues with the ad as well, but people think they are getting a place to build their dream cabin on, and after making a down payment, and a few monthly payments, many realize that they can't access the property and let it go back to the seller, who resells it again and again, keeping the payments and down payment of the buyer. And to build a cabin there, isn't going to happen in a week without spending a lot of money on air transport of building supplies or trucking it to Manley and then pull it in by snowmachine in the winter. The ad also claims is it by the Tanana River, fact is it is North of the Yukon River and not even close to the Tanana River, it is on the other side of the Yukon River to the South, so this seller had clearly not put a foot on this land.
Five Acres Alaska Land at Deadman Lake Build A Cabin One Week Only | eBay

Last edited by starlite9; 02-09-2014 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:01 PM
 
Location: AK
843 posts, read 1,544,745 times
Reputation: 698
Look up where Deadman Lake it. It is very close to the Tanana River and nowhere near the Yukon (at least not compared to the Tanana).

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=deadm...ake,+&t=h&z=12

The "one week only" probably refers to how long the listing is going to be up at that price. The lister probably could have phrased that more clearly, but it doesn't say "build a cabin in one week."

Even so, you're right about these ebay people. They make it seem to easy, and it probably does seem easy for a person who has never tried to traverse any considerable distance of Alaska. It also seems like they've seen your posts and have edited their listing accordingly.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:09 PM
 
4,718 posts, read 8,236,696 times
Reputation: 2138
Anyone that buys land sight unseen, ANYWHERE is asking for it...
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:48 PM
 
9 posts, read 14,754 times
Reputation: 11
Bortstc is right about the Tanana, and I have to admit I don't see anything blatantly "untrue" about the ad you linked to.

The "easy access" the seller refers to is by air (which is true, as long as you have the cash) - and I don't see any claims that there are roads in the area, just trails that are "not negotiable by highway vehicle." Sure the ad may paint a rosy picture, but what advertising doesn't?

Lumping this ad in with the ones that show "highway exits" and pictures of the fountain in downtown Fairbanks is what I was referring to originally. Your attitude seems to be "this is all junk land (except for my property, of course!) and unless people say it's junk and ask nothing for it they are scammers."

The truth is that the price of the land available over-the-counter from the State of Alaska is primarily dependent on how easy it is to get to. Let's take Geskakmina Lake for example. These lots are not still available because they are "junk", "swamp" or "marginal". The same standards were used to subdivide that area as everywhere else, which I've already described. They are just way the hell out there, and therefore they are cheaper than land in closer-in areas. That's how land appraisal works. Read the appraisal reports, you can get them from the DNR.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:08 PM
 
9 posts, read 14,754 times
Reputation: 11
I misread your original comment about stealing photos - I though you were saying people were "stealing land off the Internet". I agree that people who steal photos are frauds and scammers - especially if they are pictures of highway exits and "roads to the property".
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,381 posts, read 11,383,458 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by caman View Post
Bortstc is right about the Tanana, and I have to admit I don't see anything blatantly "untrue" about the ad you linked to.

The "easy access" the seller refers to is by air (which is true, as long as you have the cash) - and I don't see any claims that there are roads in the area, just trails that are "not negotiable by highway vehicle." Sure the ad may paint a rosy picture, but what advertising doesn't?

Lumping this ad in with the ones that show "highway exits" and pictures of the fountain in downtown Fairbanks is what I was referring to originally. Your attitude seems to be "this is all junk land (except for my property, of course!) and unless people say it's junk and ask nothing for it they are scammers."

The truth is that the price of the land available over-the-counter from the State of Alaska is primarily dependent on how easy it is to get to. Let's take Geskakmina Lake for example. These lots are not still available because they are "junk", "swamp" or "marginal". The same standards were used to subdivide that area as everywhere else, which I've already described. They are just way the hell out there, and therefore they are cheaper than land in closer-in areas. That's how land appraisal works. Read the appraisal reports, you can get them from the DNR.
Yes he is right, the Tanana River is close, but the ad refered to Manley Hot springs, which is on the North side of the Yukon river and for some reason was thinking it was there, it was another lake I was thinking of and apoligize for that. I have flown over that area many times and just misquoted.

But still, the lake isn't accessible without a lot of money involved by whomever buys land there. Planes are not cheap to own, charter or operate, they would also need a boat/fourwheeler, snowmachine or are in for a very rough/long walk, and there is a lot of boggy areas there as well, and not much of a view unless you were higher up on the hill side.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:17 AM
 
Location: NP
573 posts, read 776,093 times
Reputation: 566
You better check your map again. Manley isn't on the "north side" of the Yukon River. It's on the north side of the Tanana.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:28 PM
 
446 posts, read 547,353 times
Reputation: 482
Sorry again but it's on the SOUTH side of the Tanana! Source: been there many times, you cross the N FORK of the Tanana on the Elliot before you enter "town".
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: NP
573 posts, read 776,093 times
Reputation: 566
Nope, there's no north fork of the Tanana. You'll cross Hutlinana Creek and Baker Creek on the Elliott, but never the Tanana. Manley itself is on Hot Springs Slough and it's a couple miles or so along the slough to the Tanana itself.

Last edited by akpls; 02-11-2014 at 06:26 PM..
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:59 PM
 
446 posts, read 547,353 times
Reputation: 482
Yeah, you're right. Google maps screwed me.

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