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Old 06-18-2013, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
15,695 posts, read 25,302,452 times
Reputation: 11232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Just because something pays money, doesn't mean it's good for the environment.

Sometime we have to look past the paycheck.
As you type with your keyboard, look around the room you are at. Look at the computer you are using, and realize that the electricity it uses is not being produced by the outlet in the wall. Then look at every item in the room, the walls, ceiling, doors, windows...every little item around you (don't forget the chair you sit on).

All of these things exist because of petroleum, minerals mined somewhere, trees, and so on. The copper wires running thought the walls, and the power-lines outside your house come from mines. And when you bring a metallic fork or spoon to your mouth, don't forget that these two are the result of mining.

Last edited by RayinAK; 06-19-2013 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:26 PM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 7,447,019 times
Reputation: 8846
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
As you type with your keyboard, look around the room you are at. Look at the computer you are using, and realize that the electricity it uses is not being produced by the outlet in the wall. Then look at every item in the room, the walls, ceiling, doors, windows...every little item around you (don't forget the chair you sit on).

All of these things exist because of petroleum, minerals mined somewhere, trees, and so on. The copper wires running thought the walls, and the power-lines outside your house come from mines. And when you bring a metallic fork or spoon to your mouth, don't forget that these two are the result of mining.
What about the 40 million or so sockeye salmon that return to Bristol Bay every year? What happens to them.

What about all the jobs created by the salmon industry?

What about the Alaskan Natives & their subsistence way of life? Doesn't that count for anything?

Digging a huge mine right smack dab in the middle of the most productive salmon run in the world makes little to no sense.

Of course if you stand to make billions in a few years and then proceed to leave a gigantic mess for others to clean up, then I suppose it would.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:33 PM
 
702 posts, read 618,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket View Post
What about the 40 million or so sockeye salmon that return to Bristol Bay every year? What happens to them.

What about all the jobs created by the salmon industry?

What about the Alaskan Natives & their subsistence way of life? Doesn't that count for anything?

Digging a huge mine right smack dab in the middle of the most productive salmon run in the world makes little to no sense.

Of course if you stand to make billions in a few years and then proceed to leave a gigantic mess for others to clean up, then I suppose it would.
No matter where minerals are mined, it will be bad for the local environment. The impact can be minimized, but it can't be eliminated. However, if it's done in another country, the impact probably won't be minimized, and we won't have the mining jobs, either.

I understand your point, but I don't think that moving the impact to someplace with less regulations is better for the environment.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
6,285 posts, read 10,887,730 times
Reputation: 4804
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket View Post
What about the 40 million or so sockeye salmon that return to Bristol Bay every year? What happens to them.

What about all the jobs created by the salmon industry?

What about the Alaskan Natives & their subsistence way of life? Doesn't that count for anything?

Digging a huge mine right smack dab in the middle of the most productive salmon run in the world makes little to no sense.

Of course if you stand to make billions in a few years and then proceed to leave a gigantic mess for others to clean up, then I suppose it would.
You've obviously never spent time in the bush. These people need jobs. That area of Alaska has one of the highest unemployment rates in the State of Alaska. While subsistence hunting and fishing are important those activities don't pay the fuel oil bill, the electric bill, the housing bills, or any bills. Contrary to popular opinion they don't live in igloos or drive dog teams. They live in real houses, some with flush toliets, they watch television and they buy a lot of their own groceries like everyone else.

The left wing liberals that want to shut mining down have yet to offer even ONE additional job to make up for the hundreds that the Pebble Mine would create. If the salmon jobs were so plentiful why is there such a high rate of unemployment in the region???

This doom and gloom doomsday mentality is retarded. Enviromental controls are so strict now you'd never see a repeat of what happened in the past. These same liberal whack jobs predicted the same thing when they started to develop the Red Dog mine and Prudhoe Bay. Guess who got proved wrong?

If the tree huggin, bunny lovin, green weenies wanna do something positive they should figure out how to work with the mining industry and help come up with solutions.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
15,695 posts, read 25,302,452 times
Reputation: 11232
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket View Post
What about the 40 million or so sockeye salmon that return to Bristol Bay every year? What happens to them.

What about all the jobs created by the salmon industry?

What about the Alaskan Natives & their subsistence way of life? Doesn't that count for anything?

Digging a huge mine right smack dab in the middle of the most productive salmon run in the world makes little to no sense.

Of course if you stand to make billions in a few years and then proceed to leave a gigantic mess for others to clean up, then I suppose it would.
1. Have you heard of Copper River salmon? I let you do some research about Copper Center, and the Copper River, plus the huge popularity and abundance of salmon in this region.

2. Most of the salmon industry itself, jobs and everything else, are not from Alaska, and the money does not stay in Alaska. This industries (fishing fleets and the rest), and based in Oregon and Washington.

3. How about Alaskans in general, since there only aren't Alaska Natives living and fishing in the region. And there isn't much of a subsistence lifestyle anymore. But there is some whaling by Barrow and other areas of Alaska, which is more of a subsistence lifestyle, although quite far from Bristol Bay.

4. I see... So you can have nuclear plants right by your cities, and also all kinds of industries...but not in Alaska? Besides, such industries and facilities aren't built to create disasters. The same can be said for this mine.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,852 posts, read 18,384,504 times
Reputation: 6446
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket View Post
Digging a huge mine right smack dab in the middle of the most productive salmon run in the world makes little to no sense.
Do you honestly believe that all the salmon returning to Bristol Bay head up one and only one stream to spawn?

There are hundreds of rivers and streams emptying into Bristol Bay, and dozens are salmon producing. If something goes catastrophically wrong with the Pebble Mine, it could only impact one of those dozens of salmon producing rivers/streams.

Steps could easily be taken to introduce salmon fry into other rivers and streams that currently do not produce salmon, so that the number of returning salmon to Bristol Bay would actually increase, regardless of the impact Pebble Mine may have.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:04 AM
 
19,000 posts, read 24,521,189 times
Reputation: 10421
Pffft. We'll see who has the jobs if the mine materializes. I'd be willing to place serious bets on the majority of those jobs going to out of state workers.


Quote:
Most of the salmon industry itself, jobs and everything else, are not from Alaska, and the money does not stay in Alaska. This industries (fishing fleets and the rest), and based in Oregon and Washington.
Tell me again about how the proposed Pebble mine will be Alaskan owned and operated.

I realize it's difficult for a janitor from the interior to understand the first thing about the Pacific fishing industry, but it never has been state specific. The commercial fishing industry accounts for a significant amount of Alaska's revenue.

Alaska needs to be careful with this one. These mineral rights are owned by foreign interests.

Quote:
What about the Alaskan Natives & their subsistence way of life? Doesn't that count for anything?
Not here, no. The Alaska CD forum is populated by fat old whities who worship at the throne of Joe Miller.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-28-2013 at 02:21 AM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:57 PM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 7,447,019 times
Reputation: 8846
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post

4. I see... So you can have nuclear plants right by your cities, and also all kinds of industries...but not in Alaska? Besides, such industries and facilities aren't built to create disasters. The same can be said for this mine.
Go right ahead and build some nuke plants and work to get other industries into Alaska because that's what you guys need. A complete reliance on oil & minerals isn't such a good thing, is it?

What's purposed is only a short term solution to a long term problem in Alaska: jobs. I'm not sure how long this mine is supposed to go on, but I'm willing to bet its not going to benefit the people of Alaska all that much, but it could have a very negative impact on the salmon and that would affect your state for a long time to come.

I also don't see the Brits or Canucks hiring many native Alaskans or otherwise. They'll extract all the goodies they can and then move on to the next Bristol Bay.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:10 PM
 
19,000 posts, read 24,521,189 times
Reputation: 10421
They'll try, at first, and they'll probably be even some provisions about "local hire." It won't last long; it never does. Most of the residents of that area probably won't even be interested in mine jobs.

Outside of a few big boys, there aren't that many "fishing fleets," by the way. Most salmon boats are family owned and operated, and a substantial portion of those vessels belong to Alaskan residents. At one time, Petersburg, Alaska, had the highest income per capital in the nation, and that money wasn't coming from oil or mining. The salmon industry is more than just the commercial boats, by the way. Alaska's full of little fishing lodges and local charter operations, and all of these places pay business taxes that support their local communities. Plenty of coastal communities in Alaska would cease to exist if the salmon were to disappear.

Personally, though, I think the salmon runs have more imminent threats than the proposed Pebble project.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-28-2013 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 7,447,019 times
Reputation: 8846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
They'll try, at first, and they'll probably be even some provisions about "local hire." It won't last long; it never does. Most of the residents of that area probably won't even be interested in mine jobs.
Well, it might have the potential for yet another Alaska Reality Show. I suppose I'd better not say anymore about it because I'll get unmercifully attacked as just another lower lesser 48 liberal who says five Hail Obama's & ten Our Obama's every single night.

When in truth I'm nothing more than an unemployed urban guerrilla not unlike "Tania" aka Patty Hearst.
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