Does anyone worry... (Anchorage, Fairbanks, Kenai: bankrupt, high schools, college)

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

You couldn't be more misinformed.

Don't be naive. I voted in that election, and I'm also a history buff who has been discussing this topic on Usenet for about 20 years. Your twisted fabrication is unique. And you are naive if you believe it or expect others not to protest it.

Originally Posted by Glitch

Anchorage wasn't even in the list of capital choices when the people voted to move the capital.

Because it was very clear that any location within an hour's drive of downtown Anchorage was absolutely unacceptable. Proximity to Anchorage, even in the 1960's, was a negative. It still is, but things have changed an it appears that even a one hour flight is not distant enough.

Originally Posted by Glitch

The purpose of the capital move was to give more people access to their representatives, and whether you like it or not, the vast majority of Alaskan's do live on the road system.

False on one count, and immaterial on the second. The purpose originally was to provide more effective government, not just "access" to some.

As I noted previously, in the 1960's it really was impossible to get access to the Legislature during a session. We sent not only our elected officials to the Legislature, but also our lobbiest... and then did not hear a peep from any of them until it was all said and done. The ones who were effective (which usually means those who had the best funding) almost always found ways to provide "information" (I put it in quotes, because it was propaganda, and not necessarily factually correct) that would sway other lobbiest and of course the elected legislators. A non-professional who came from a village, as one example, would be far out-classed by those with money from Anchorage or Seattle. Lots of times we sent them with instructions to "make sure about this", and they came back full of enthusiasm for exactly the opposite.

More effective government comes from better communications. That is what the vote was about. And it made sense at the time to move the capital to a place that had a communications infrastructure or would be able to get one. Before the oil money, we could not have expected that to be Juneau. But by 1975 Juneau was clearly better equipped [Alascom had taken over the Bartlett Earth Station in Talketna and was installing gateway earth stations at Lena Point (Juneau), Eagle River (Anchorage), and Gilmore Creek (Fairbanks) plus major earth stations at Nome, Barrow, and Bethel].

There simply was no longer any benefit to moving the capital out of Juneau; and indeed doing so would be detrimental to government in Alaska.

Originally Posted by Glitch

Now if you truly enjoy corrupt politicians, then I can certainly understand your desire to keep the capital in Juneau. Fortunately, the majority of Alaskans don't and want the capital moved.

You are naive beyond belief on that one! It was bad enoug what Anchorage area politicians did, but the only reason they actually got caught and were prosecuted is because Juneau is a small town were it is impossible to hide that sort of thing. If the capital had been in Willow, we would have built most State offices in downtown Anchorage... and in the hustle and bustle of a city that sized, those yo-yo's from Veco et al would still be wearing their hats bragging of corruption.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

You don't see other states that don't have road access to their capital, except Hawaii obviously. Alaska is unique in that respect.

You point out that Hawaii is the same, and then still claim Alaska is unique.

This topic requires valid facts and logical analysis, not illogical geo-political bias.

The facts are:

• Alaska is not unique
• Having a road to the capital is of no consequence at all.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Well you have now, I'm not from Anchorage.

Wasilla is listed as where you are, is that correct? Is that, and the entire Mat-Su valley for that matter, anything other than the northern suburb of Ancorage?

You can call it by whatever name you like, and you can even talk about the 45 minute drive. But for the rest of Alaska, our perspective is that you live in "Anchorage".

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

I'll tell you how it will make a difference:

• More Alaskans will have access to their representatives;

False. About 99% of Alaskans have easy access to elected officials. Virtually everyone has a telephone and most Alaskans have email. It is simply impossible to give more Alaskans access.

The most negative aspect of a relocation would be to give Anchorage institutions daily personal contact that is not and cannot be given to everyone. It would give UNEQUAL ACCESS to the half of the State's population that has consistently demonstrated no consideration of the other half, and no perception of what the other half even is, much less what they need in a government.

Originally Posted by Glitch

• We won't be forced to hire incompetent state employees because of the lack of the population pool to select from;

Gratuitous, false slurs against Alaskans of proven stature cast a heavy shadow over your character, not theirs.

Originally Posted by Glitch

• Closer scrutiny of our representatives will reduce their temptation to commit crimes; and

That is a valid point, but you have it backwards. The only reason we've been able to jail a few of Anchorage's (manyy) corrupt politicians is because in a small place like Juneau, word gets around.

Another very serious negative for a capital move is allowing politicians to hide in the complexity of a large population center like Anchorage.

Originally Posted by Glitch

• Political decisions will be made on what is best for the state, not what is best for Juneau.

That is an ideal which rarely happens, principally because of the geo-political bias (and their abject ignorance of the rest of the State) that is inherent it the political power base in Anchorage (which includes the Mat-Su Valley).

If we do continue to make capital move decisions based on what is best for the entire State, there is little doubt that the status quo will remain: The capital of Alaska and the base for all State government, including Legislative sessions, will remain in Juneau.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

According to you everything that isn't Juneau is Anchorage. You live in a very small deluded world indeed.

Xa'at, the person you addressed above, lives in Alaska. You should come for a visit!

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

It is only "the nature of the beast" in Juneau because it encourages political corruption.

An allegation that cannot be supported by facts or logic.

Originally Posted by Glitch

They are ALL Juneau-based politicians while the capital is in Juneau. Wake up and smell the coffee.

False by definition.

Originally Posted by Glitch

I can give you a litany of decisions made in Juneau that has harmed the rest of the state.

You cannot and have not. Every single claim you make is clearly invalid... and your "litany" is another example. The one claim you do make, as demonstrated below, is simply absurdly ignorant of facts.

Originally Posted by Glitch

For example, all servers and databases MUST reside in Juneau, even when it means denying other portions of the state access to those servers and databases.

How could that mean denying other portions of the state access??? What do you think computer networking is for?

In fact, it makes extremely good sense to put all of the State's servers and databases in one location, and serve the rest of the State via a network. That is economically true, but it is also very close to an operational requirement for reliability.

[Xa'at]

Floyd, this is truly epic. I have never seen one person spend so much time carefully plotting and debunking every single point another person makes.
You are my hero.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Xa'at

Floyd, this is truly epic. I have never seen one person spend so much time carefully plotting and debunking every single point another person makes.
You are my hero.

After that chocolate chip cookie, you certainly are my hero!!!

I should point out a couple of simple things. The obvious one is that it is an extremely important topic, because an incorrect decision will have long term detrimental effects for our children and grandchildren (incidentally, two of my children and one grandchild of mine live in Juneau).

What is not obvious is that I've been active on Usenet, and commonly discussing most of these long term issues, for 20 years. I've had a lot of practice in how to write as well as how to research; and often all I need to do is look up the last time I responded to the same issues.

What amazes me though is how anyone can repeatedly read maps wrong, and when confronted with how to verify it still claim that Alaska is twice a big as it is; and then post more false statements about something as old and as well known as the history of the capital move issue.

[cobolt]

Thank you Floyd. Well said. Well said, indeed. I'd rep you more if I could!

[akck]

Originally Posted by Glitch

They are ALL Juneau-based politicians while the capital is in Juneau. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If this is the case, then why are they even talking about moving the capital in the legislature?