Measuring cost/benefit ratios in Tourism (Petersburg, Metlakatla: environment, vacation, income)

[User 2]

Costs and benefits can be an 'on topic' discussion here and not detract from other posts.

Is tourism, or more pointedly, unregulated growth of tourism a good policy to pursue in Alaska?

The cost of tourism cannot be valued only in terms of economic multipliers applied to figures such as income generated for wages, etc.

While a study extolling the virtues of benefits in strict terms of economic gains will most often state positive results for those who will prosper from additional tourism, it's not likely that the same study will portray the increased expenditures and impacts borne by the residents because of the increased burden placed on infrastructure and services needing to be upgraded to address that extra burden from increased use.

Leaving aside the strictly economic cost benefit ratio, measuring the net gain or loss of quality of life issues is much more subjective, yet not any less real if one is to properly gauge impacts.

In Alaska, the cruise ship industry puts tremendous pressure on our roads, rails, docks and emergency services, and yet they are exempt from paying any corporate income tax which might be allocated to alleviate that extra burden they create that the residents must then compensate them for.

It's one thing to say the cruise industry provides 'jobs', but how many of those jobs are compensated at a range below a reasonable standard needed to have a certain quality of life?

The cruise ships I've been on have crews made of of mostly transnational itinerant workers.

Are we evaluating the costs and benefits, or are we only focused on one side of the equation?

[Xa'at]

Originally Posted by Xa'at

Without sounding negative, I have to say don't do it. Although I have a lot of biases against cruise lines, all of them are justified... Obviously, there are good aspects of cruise ships, and a lot of people like them, but I just don't think it's worth it. I am pretty fiercely independent and the idea of being herded around for seven days sounds pretty darn close to crossing the river Styx, if you know what I'm talking about.
However, if you are the type that goes on vacation to avoid deep thinking, then by all means, go. But, follow the advice of the other people have posted. Book your tours independently, buy your souvenirs from locally owned businesses (in Juneau they will be marked with big green circular stickers that say "Destination Juneau: Ask Me, I Live Here") and in the name of all that is good in the world, if you see a crazed woman on an iceburg coming at you, run.

Originally Posted by Xa'at

I say we invent hologram technology that we then implement on the cruise ships. Whenever a captain orders a waste dumping in Gastineau channel or whatever, a hologram of Metlakatla pops up and slaps him across the face.
Better yet, let's just beam the real thing in and let her have at.

Originally Posted by Xa'at

I know, it's the same way in Juneau. We have this beautiful boardwalk along the channel downtown and now there's a big yellow fence running down the middle, to prevent people from getting to the cruise ships. It also prevents us from getting to the water. Mind you, it's easy to climb over it, but the area is always swarming with dark-sunglass-clad thugs patrolling to keep us pesky locals in line.

Originally Posted by Xa'at

Despite what everyone has said about AMHS, it's still my preference. Yes, it's a little rough, the rooms are small, and it's a bit expensive. But ladies and gentlemen, it's the ALASKA EXPERIENCE! If someone wants to spend a week getting pampered and eating gourmet steaks, than fine. But that's not really Alaska. Plus, state ferries go more places than cruise ships, like Pelican, Hoonah, Angoon, etc.

And finally...

Originally Posted by Xa'at

Seriously, if these folks are going to wandering down Franklin declothed [sic?], I might have some qualms, but as far as I'm concerned they're just more brainless sheep being herded around clogging our streets and and replacing our mom and pop stores with jewelry emporiums. They're annoying whether or not they're wearing clothing while sailing down the Chatham strait.

We need to get Metla in here.

[Metlakatla]

I've posted on the subject before and though I may have tried to sugar coat my thoughts and feelings on the subject, I believe I've made my position clear as well regarding the issue of the floating food bins.

[User 2]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

I may have tried to sugar coat my thoughts and feelings

Oh, come on. Tell us how you really feel.

[Metlakatla]

The only real problem I have with sugar coating is that I am compelled to import black market raw sugar rather than use the processed bs that we are allowed to purchase here.

damned fda.

Raw sugar rocks.

[Xa'at]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

It's worse than that, Xa'at.

The cruise ships put out little "shopping booklets" with little coupons....if local businesses want to get into that booklet, they have to not only pay a kickback to the cruise ship companies but also be prepared for hordes of tourons whining for their "free gift".

And again, the jewelry stores can and will pay much higher rents for retail spaces than most locals can pay...hey, it's all a tax write off for them anyway.

The barf that is regurgitated from those ships is the worst kind of trash.

I know I posted on another thread that my 80 year old father was knocked down on the streets of Skagway by some touron so intent on the pursute of a shiny trinket --that she couldn't even take a second look to see if the old man she knocked over was okay.

Its true that Skagway itself will die if not for the touron industry...but it was never a real town to begin with. The cruise ships are nothing more than the second gold rush.

Petersburg has the highest income per capita in the US.

They seem to have the highest level of integrity as well, as they have refused time and time again to allow their community to become infested with floating food bins and the vultureesque carpetbaggers that follow them like bag ladies in a bus station scrounging for stray butts in the outdoor ashtrays.

People who want to see the North, and who think outside the box..are welcome here as tourists...and we do get our fair amount of travelers here as well....but tourons...I have less than no use for them. To me they are worth less than the waste that the ships they come up on barf into our waters.

I agree with her ^.

[GoddessofRandomThoughts]

Originally Posted by User 2

Costs and benefits can be an 'on topic' discussion here and not detract from other posts.
Is tourism, or more pointedly, unregulated growth of tourism a good policy to pursue in Alaska?
The cost of tourism cannot be valued only in terms of economic multipliers applied to figures such as income generated for wages, etc.
While a study extolling the virtues of benefits in strict terms of economic gains will most often state positive results for those who will prosper from additional tourism, it's not likely that the same study will portray the increased expenditures and impacts borne by the residents because of the increased burden placed on infrastructure and services needing to be upgraded to address that extra burden from increased use.

Leaving aside the strictly economic cost benefit ratio, measuring the net gain or loss of quality of life issues is much more subjective, yet not any less real if one is to properly gauge impacts.
In Alaska, the cruise ship industry puts tremendous pressure on our roads, rails, docks and emergency services, and yet they are exempt from paying any corporate income tax which might be allocated to alleviate that extra burden they create that the residents must then compensate them for.
It's one thing to say the cruise industry provides 'jobs', but how many of those jobs are compensated at a range below a reasonable standard needed to have a certain quality of life?
The cruise ships I've been on have crews made of of mostly transnational itinerant workers.
Are we evaluating the costs and benefits, or are we only focused on one side of the equation?

So do you have an idea as to how to make all this better?Folks complain about the ships and tourist but alaska needs them or more specificly their money.

It is more than doubtful that tourism is going to go away and if it did no matter how much trouble tourist may cause alaska's economy would very likely miss them. If cruise ships are so bad, maybe there just needs to be stronger regulations to keep them from polluting the environment.
And all tourist are not complete idiots or obnoxious, you just tend to notice the ones that are. Getting rid of everyone is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
As for the stupid tourons, well, as we know, You can't fix stupid!

Don't other places with a large tourism industry have the same problems?
What do they do?

You are right in saying that ships crews are not from Ak or even the US most of the time. The jobs come from services provided for the passengers.

Good luck on getting the thread to stay on topic!

[Metlakatla]

So do you have an idea as to how to make all this better?Folks complain about the ships and tourist but alaska needs them or more specificly their money.

Excuse me...Alaska needs what?

The tourons and their money?

FFS.

Perhaps you might want to explain to me, then, how Petersburg, Alaska, has the highest income per capita in the US...yet has refused for years to allow the big ships to infest their community.

Then explain why Skagway is dying. Explain why people are moving away in droves, why the average family can't even afford to live there anymore.

Its a freakin' fallacy that Alaska needs the cruise ship economy---

Are you aware at all that the cruise ships don't even pay US port fees?

They aren't registered in US waters. Do you have any clue at all as to the parent company of Princess and Carnival?

And the price of oil is rising also....

The cruise ship generated so called economy is destroying parts of SE Alaska.

[Metlakatla]

You are right in saying that ships crews are not from Ak or even the US most of the time. The jobs come from services provided for the passengers.

Would you mind providing some clarification for this sentence?

The crews on the ships are largely Filipino. They make way less than American min. wage.

The jobs come from services provided for the passengers.

That's not really a proper sentence so I can't respond to it.

If cruise ships are so bad, maybe there just needs to be stronger regulations to keep them from polluting the environment.

LMGDAO...

or I would be....

if it weren't so freakin' sad.

BP cocktail, anyone?

[GoddessofRandomThoughts]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

Excuse me...Alaska needs what?

The tourons and their money?

FFS.

Perhaps you might want to explain to me, then, how Petersburg, Alaska, has the highest income per capita in the US...yet has refused for years to allow the big ships to infest their community.

Then explain why Skagway is dying. Explain why people are moving away in droves, why the average family can't even afford to live there anymore.

Its a freakin' fallacy that Alaska needs the cruise ship economy---

Are you aware at all that the cruise ships don't even pay US port fees?

They aren't registered in US waters. Do you have any clue at all as to the parent company of Princess and Carnival?

And the price of oil is rising also....

The cruise ship generated so called economy is destroying parts of SE Alaska.

So the cruise ships are an unnecessary evil and if they were discontinued everything would be fine??

Real question not sarcasm. If they are so horrible why are they still there? Yeah, business and all but still many others must feel as you do.

I think you maybe simplifying it. And no I do not claim to know anything for a fact. I am asking. Chill.

I'm not saying that these places couldn't or wouldn't exist without tourism but I don't know if tourism is the only evil.
About Petersburg, I have no idea, but you are using it to prove your point, sooo tell me Is it the lack of tourism that helps them or is there something they have or are doing differently than other cities?