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Old 09-01-2015, 08:54 PM
 
Location: SW Oregon
94 posts, read 127,827 times
Reputation: 63

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So, I've seen it said here dozens of times already, and I'm not about to argue with you guys that it's a fact. But what do you think are the biggest reasons it doesn't work anymore to live off the land, or be self sufficient in Alaska anymore? I'm guessing the scarcity of game is a major factor, combined with regulations restricting the hunting of what game /fish there still are. Obviously, land prices have gone up, but there's plenty of places and folks that can still manage land debt-free.

So what are the other factors influencing it? Or is that pretty much it?
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:00 PM
 
26,534 posts, read 36,407,773 times
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It never did work in Alaska, except on the panhandle and on the northern and western coasts and out in the Aleutians. The interior tribes followed the game and lived lives of deprivation. Lots of people who went to Alaska during the various gold rushes and got stuck spending the winter didn't necessarily starve -- they died of scurvy.

ETA there are still people who get a significant amount of their food from the land. Fish and game is abundant in SE, and residents with subsistence permits have little problem filling their freezers for the winter.
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: SW Oregon
94 posts, read 127,827 times
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But all the folks you read about during the 50s, homesteading and proving up the land, they made it. Were they not truly self sufficient in the way I'm thinking? It doesn't sound like many of them had outside jobs or loads of money to buy food items. Their descriptions and stories sound like hunting, fishing, gathering, and the occasional garden and root cellar got them by. Am I just seeing what I want to see in those accounts?
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:14 PM
 
26,534 posts, read 36,407,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseBandit View Post
But all the folks you read about during the 50s, homesteading and proving up the land, they made it. Were they not truly self sufficient in the way I'm thinking? It doesn't sound like many of them had outside jobs or loads of money to buy food items. Their descriptions and stories sound like hunting, fishing, gathering, and the occasional garden and root cellar got them by. Am I just seeing what I want to see in those accounts?
No, most of the people who homesteaded ended up going home. Even the big experiment during the 30s didn't work out well for most of them. Some got by, I suppose. Most left within a few years. A very few are still there, though.

There were a lot of people homesteading around Talkeetna during the 70s. Most of them worked construction, fishing, or whatever during the summer months. I only know a few who are still there. Not much Little House on the Prairie, but from what I recall, they were happy, active people for the most part. Must have been a great way to raise kids.

I know some descendants of one of the old pioneer families in the upper Su. They owned land, hunted and fished, but they were primarily railroad employees. I think a lot of the old interior families got their start that way. One of the Hudson boys gave me a journal his aunt had kept, and I gave it to the state museum system -- it was mostly recipes, but it gave a good look into what their lives were like.

I have no idea what you're seeing because I don't know what it is you want to see. Much of the available land in the interior (especially that offered by state land sales) is swampland, impossible to grow or build on. Going into the wild and setting up shop on someone else's property isn't recommended. I think it could be done if you wanted to buy land in SE provided you know how to live off that particular type of land.

Part of the thing is is that it's easier and more comfortable to work an eight hour job than to spend every waking moment during summer and then some putting up winter provisions. Hunting, fishing, and gathering is just part of that...the rest of the time...and I do mean the rest of the time, no reading books, no canoeing in the lake...you chop wood.

You can, though, live a pretty good life by doing a combination of self sufficiency and relying on "store bought" stuff. No reason for any self respecting Alaskan to ever buy seafood in the store, for instance. Berries are everywhere.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 09-01-2015 at 09:28 PM..
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:22 PM
 
Location: SW Oregon
94 posts, read 127,827 times
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Hmm, okay. So for these days, do you think it's feasible or maybe even reasonable, to expect to be able to provide all your own protein (aka meat) via self sufficiency, in a coastal region? I'm thinking primarily salmon, maybe venison, moose, or caribou depending on where you are, and maybe raining some domestic livestock? Garden and root cellar what you can for veggies, and buy in bulk once or twice a year for grains and other?

I'm trying to figure out if it's really Alaska that I'm infatuated with, or just "proving something" to myself about my homesteading abilities by doing it somewhere a lot more difficult than Oregon, lol. Of course, I have a lot of other reasons I think Alaska is my destiny, but I'll examine those motivations in due time. ;-).

Thank you for your posts! I've been reading through these threads, and you have aTON of info to share! I appreciate that!
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:48 PM
 
26,534 posts, read 36,407,773 times
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Sure; I never bought protein when I lived in Alaska, but then, I'm not much of a red meat eater. My family owns a salmon business, so seafood was never a problem. Personally, I never had a subsistence permit because I didn't want any hint of misuse on my part -- gotta keep subsistence and commercial catches separate as possible. Friends and neighbors, though, were getting more than enough for their needs. Subsistence catch varies by district. I think you have to live there a year before you are eligible -- but don't take my word because I really don't know,and it could have changed.

The problem with livestock in coastal regions especially is that the vegetation doesn't provide them with the nutrition they need to survive. The rain leaches a lot of it out of the grass, and range land like we know it in Oregon just isn't there. Having feed shipped in is expensive...gardening in coastal regions is hit and miss...just one storm can ruin your garden, or a stray deer or two. Still, some people manage pretty good hobby gardens. And the thing about these days is that if your garden gets wiped out, you don't have to worry about dying of scurvy because there's always a way to get to an available food supply source. You might be able to get by with a couple of goats, though.

No reason you can't achieve what you're talking about, except for one thing -- I'd supplement it with work and ease into it from there. Look up GrammaCabin's posts in this forum for an example of someone who does it right.

The economy is kind of bad in Alaska right now because oil prices are all screwed up, but the SE coastal region is more economically dependent on Washington State anyway than the oil industry. This year's salmon run has been the biggest in history -- and I said the same thing just four short years ago.

One of the posters here is a homeschool mom with a blog about life in Alaska. She lives up around Fairbanks, though. Maybe she'll come by and drop a link.

What you want to do isn't all that far fetched, really, especially if you stick to the coast. If you're married, one of you should work at least seasonally for some cash. Other people might have suggestions for living in the Interior, but it's my opinion that coastal residents have a far better chance to live self sufficiently.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:19 PM
 
Location: SW Oregon
94 posts, read 127,827 times
Reputation: 63
Awesome. I'm liking the idea of homer as a starting place. Weather sounds like something I could like, not tons more rain than PNW, but not as hot as the Mat-Su (or as Oregon!), on the road system but not city. Sounds like the culture would be similar to what I'm used to here, combo of hippy and redneck, lol. Lots of fishing reasonably accessible. I'd love to be all hardcore and live way north of Fairbanks, but that's a ways off, haha. Plus I need forests and woods to keep me sane. I picture a year or three getting the hang of things, learning and testing our skills and capabilities, and just seeing if it's all we think it is. the husband will definitely be working, at least the first few years while we come up with another plan. He currently does civil construction, but I don't see tons of jobs for that, nor is he excited about working outdoors through winter, lol. So,it might be time for a career shift for him. :-). We will be looking at that as well.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,993 posts, read 4,273,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseBandit View Post
Awesome. I'm liking the idea of homer as a starting place. Weather sounds like something I could like, not tons more rain than PNW, but not as hot as the Mat-Su (or as Oregon!), on the road system but not city. Sounds like the culture would be similar to what I'm used to here, combo of hippy and redneck, lol. Lots of fishing reasonably accessible. I'd love to be all hardcore and live way north of Fairbanks, but that's a ways off, haha. Plus I need forests and woods to keep me sane. I picture a year or three getting the hang of things, learning and testing our skills and capabilities, and just seeing if it's all we think it is. the husband will definitely be working, at least the first few years while we come up with another plan. He currently does civil construction, but I don't see tons of jobs for that, nor is he excited about working outdoors through winter, lol. So,it might be time for a career shift for him. :-). We will be looking at that as well.
I lived in homer for a while. It's not a bad place although good land is at a premium. You can find cheaper land in Anchor Point if you're trying to homestead. Or maybe up on Ohlson mountain (ALOT more snow than in town, I actually know of a sweet 160 parcel for sale if you got the $). Anything with a bay view is $$$ except maybe way out east end road. Check the KPB for wetlands, as a lot of the cheaper land is wetlands.

After Homer, I moved to the interior. It's much less rainy here and many more roads (only one way out of homer). You can still drive a few hours and go dipnetting for fish (after a year of living here) and for my family I was allowed to get 55 salmon. I caught 7 and called it a day . Homer rains a decent amount and is a pretty cool town if you meet the right people. It has been "discovered" by Californians (nothing wrong with that) but there is decent money there. Very hippieish, but maybe not so much compared to Oregon. I made a decent wage there working for a big construction company who I could PM you the name if you are serious about moving there. The main industries there are Fishing, Tourism and building big houses. It can get a little over run with tourists in summer but not too bad.

I'd venture to say that the interior around my area has more hunting opportunities than Homer but less fishing.... Although it's very common for people from both areas to travel all over the state for their hunting/fishing needs.

Lots of people grow serious gardens up here in the interior. It snowed at my place on June 1st and we just had a light dusting of snow that didn't stick on August 30th so you would need to contend with that.

Homer was awarded more high tunnel greenhouse grants than any other community in Alaska (I heard this second hand). Anyways, lots of high tunnel growers, and an amazing farmers market during summer. Don't know your budget but with a family don't expect to live there on the cheap. You'd want to look at Anchor point (while nice enough and only 10-15 miles away, it's not as "prestigious" as homer) or way down east end road or way up on Ohlson mountain.

I plan to cause some trouble here at Alice's champagne palace in "downtown" homer here in a few weeks, one of my favorite establishments!

Good luck.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:46 PM
 
26,534 posts, read 36,407,773 times
Reputation: 29633
Oh, and that's one thing about Homer -- parts of that region have really good loam soils, and it rains a lot less there in SE so they don't get leached out.
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Old 09-01-2015, 11:33 PM
 
Location: SW Oregon
94 posts, read 127,827 times
Reputation: 63
I thought I had read somewhere that the "bench" was good for growing crops. Why do the high tunnels need to be so high? Why not just like 8-10' high?
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