No Pebble Mine (Fairbanks, Metlakatla, Ferry: environment, showing, income)

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by User 2

That's because you don't read the material provided,

.....the 'points' aren't something I made up,

....the 'points' are already the subject of United States Congressional hearings and the subject of pending legislation before the Alaska Legislature.

Try informing yourself about the issue, ...rather than trying to say I'm creating the issue.

You'll find your level of comprehension will go up exponentially.......
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OK then, go to this web site (Fairbanks Borough), enter the name of any company, mine, or any other business operating within the borough, and look at the tax tables. See if the amounts have been paid, and how much. Don't forget that I am talking only about property tax:
FNSB | Property Database | Search by Name

[lifelongalaskan]

Originally Posted by User 2

You're opinion doesn't mean anything without any clear evidence that it's based on anything other than ill-conceived assumptions and misinformed dis-information.

You've demonstrated a distinct lack of comprehension as far as addressing the information provided in the links and from the sources provided throughout this thread.

I could care less about uninformed opinions that mischaracterize the factual information presented, you are correct, ...those 'opinions' have little bearing on reality.
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Excellent! That is exactly what I'm looking for. Keep it coming!

[stiffnecked]

Made the uninformed should get a job with a mining company and find out what really goes on. Don't you just hate experts that have no firsthand knowledge about the subject? I can comment on being a roofer, police officer, corrections officer, tour guide and a miner. I cannot comment on being a reindeer herder, fisherman or potato farmer.

Like I said earlier some people make bizzare claims to drawn attention to themselves. In some strange way it makes them feel self important when in fact they are impotent....

[Metlakatla]

Personally, I work at a mine and I'm probably the only one who does who has posted in this thread. And I'm not thrilled with Northwest Dynasty's prospectus as it stands and hope that the Pebble mine project does not come to fruition.

[stiffnecked]

I'll admit the prospectus looked pretty brutal. But that whole thing is designed to draw in prospective investors. My best educated guess is that IF this mine comes to fruition it won't be anywhere near what they have in the prospectus. By the time all the enviromental and regulatory agencies have their say in the matter I would suspect quite a scaled down version.

The flip side is that if it get's scaled back it may not come on-line at all. Mines of that nature must move massive amounts of material to make any money. If they can't move the yardage it won't make economic sense.

[Metlakatla]

For anyone's who's interested:

Democratic Courage

I'll admit the prospectus looked pretty brutal. But that whole thing is designed to draw in prospective investors. My best educated guess is that IF this mine comes to fruition it won't be anywhere near what they have in the prospectus. By the time all the enviromental and regulatory agencies have their say in the matter I would suspect quite a scaled down version.

That's kind of the point of all the squawking going on.

My main concern is that this project will very likely destroy the world's largest Red (sockeye) run. Hell, maybe if they were humpies...

But if you'd fished Reds in Bristol Bay your entire life only to see a dam go up that would keep the salmon from their spawning ground, would you accept some laborer's job in a mine as a consolation prize?

Let's not forget how important the salmon industry is to this state as well.

[User 2]

For all you whiners and moaners who keep trying to insinuate that the controversy over Pebble mine is something only uninformed attention seekers are cooking up over nothing,

...perhaps you should direct your uninformed and ill-conceived comments to Alaska's senior Senator, Ted Stevens,

...we all know the Hulkster, right? There hasn't been a development project during his term that he hasn't supported.

He is working to stop Pebble mine because he, unlike the uninformed whiners and moaners, has the information to acknowledge that Pebble is not in the best interests of the people of this state or the country.

Take a moment to look past your dogmatic conditioning and actually inform yourselves....

....you ***** about someone who's concerned the project might not be what's needed, but you don't offer to actually answer the questions that have been raised.

Talk specifics, and actually address the points of the issue, if you think you can,

...otherwise you sound like a bunch of old women gossipers and come off as just as likely to be similarly ill-informed.


Look to ray's comeback above, .....the issue was fed and state royalties and corporate tax structures on the industry.... .....ray's comeback?

He want's to talk about something else, ...he thinks he's found some counter because someone might have paid their property tax.

He might not understand that property tax is not royaties, fees and corporate state taxes, ....but if he does, he must realize it's irrelevant when the issue is something else entirely.

Are you supporters of Pebble not able to actually come up with any coherent justification for your support?

Surely you can show that the questions are out-weighed by the benefits, right?

If you can show that, do so..... Address the issue, cite the laws and regulations you say make this a responsible development, show where in the law we are protected from the owners being able to evade liability in the case of disaster. Tell us how the vast majority of the value of our resources enriching foreign owners is in our best interests. Provide answers that directly address the questions raised. Cite the sources and provide links to prove you know what you're talking about.

Can't actually do that?

....if not, all you're doing is clucking like an old hen.

And you can't eat a hen's clucking, ......so you've got nothing.......

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[baywop]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

But if you'd fished Reds in Bristol Bay your entire life only to see a dam go up that would keep the salmon from their spawning ground, would you accept some laborer's job in a mine as a consolation prize?

A dam doesn't necessarily prevent salmon from spawning, fish ladders could be built to help them on their journey up river.

[User 2]

Originally Posted by baywop

A dam doesn't necessarily prevent salmon from spawning, fish ladders could be built to help them on their journey up river.

We aren't talking about fish ladders,

...and besides, the dam is to hold back toxic sludge poured into the water behind the dams,

....the reservoirs behind the dam are to be utilized as a mixing zone for sludge, slurry and mining ore waste,

...why would you suggest that salmon be given access to a hazardous waste pit?

You think that's where the salmon are going to spawn?

Is that your idea of informed comment?

The dam they are proposing would be the largest dam in the world, behind that dam would be hazardous and toxic waste, ...if an earthquake were to breach or under cut the dam, the entire watershed would be contaminated, ...forever.

If the design engineers screw up, the construction company cut corners, if any number of things were to go the least bit wrong, catastrophe would be the result. Earthen dams are notorious for regularly sustaining breaches that have to be continually repaired, ...how about we provide you with a house under the downstream lip of the dam? You'd rest easy at night, right?

Read up, eh?
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[baywop]

Originally Posted by User 2

We aren't talking about fish ladders,[---]Is that your idea of informed comment?

I was responding to this part of Metla's post...

only to see a dam go up that would keep the salmon from their spawning ground