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Let me just be candid, I've spent a decent amount of time today telling myself I'm just overly emotional this time of the month and getting all offended is stupid. You're trying to be honest and helpful, and I'm just getting my feelings hurt for nothing. And that may yet be the case, but I'll tell ya, it sounds like you're going to dislike me, or make fun of me, no matter what. If I'm into being a homesteader, well that's lame because you can't raise livestock in Alaska because predators. If I want to try and do some subsistence hunting and fishing, well I'm an idiot because obviously that means I think I can live off the land, and that can't be done. If I want to think ahead and plan something out, and god forbid I'm white, what, now I'm a wackaloo whitey nationalist survivalist with posters of the bundys on my wall and I must hate natives. Wow.
You know what, I don't know who you would want to be friends with, or nice to, or who you would like to see move to Alaska. Unprepared idiots who are going to die. Prepared racist survivalists, and from Oregon to boot.
My name is Tracey Hamilton Roberts. From the Wild West lawless town of cave junction, born and raised. Go google me, or Facebook me, or whatever if you're interested. yep, I'm white. Yep, I can food. Yep, I love venison backstrap. I shave my armpits, but I've been known to wear tie dye. I have a memorial cross with LaVoys name on it by my front door. Good heavens, block the border because I might sneak into your state and do what exactly, go live on a piece of land and try to raise chickens, goats, and kids?
What in the world is wrong with any of that?
I'd also be interested to know who you think the white nationalist survivalist network in Oregon is? Because based on that description, I don't think you know much about Oregon, particularly southern Oregon, or Oregon preparedness folks at all. Betcha I'm rolling my eyes at least as far back in my head right now as you do when you read my posts about wanting to live in the bush.
I'm glad you are doing your research, but I'm just not sure reality has sunk in yet.
I seriously was taking you serious until you asked about a 20k a year budget.
My family is debt free except for student loans. There is no way we could live off 20k in the bush (I actually have only lived in the bush). I quickly realized what you want to do, just isn't possible. Unless you are willing to drop a lot of coin. Hundreds of thousands up front.
I have a nice response for you in the budget thread but it's on the lap top, but a family your size would need at least $60k a year to live off.
Remember it takes a year to qualify as a resident for many subsistence hunting/fishing. The last two years we've had to purchase our red meat,which greatly increases our food bill. I've put plenty of fish up, but one can only eat so much fish.
Well, I spent a decent amount of time working today rather than thinking about how being on my period might be affecting my feelings concerning online discourse, but that's just me.
Nobody told you that you couldn't have livestock because predators (although that's certainly a consideration -- goats in particular attract bears). What I said is that raising meat doesn't make sense when you consider the cost of bringing in pretty much all of their food. A bullet is much cheaper. Buying meat at the store is much cheaper. Nobody said you couldn't hunt or fish or grow a garden. We're just trying to tell you that things are much different here, but you don't seem to want to hear it. So by all means, drag your four kids up and find out for yourself what it's like to try to survive on a husband's odd jobs and investments that may or may not pan out someday. You can probably get food stamps, and maybe the perm fund will last a few more years; you might clean up on that pretty good with four kids.
Personally, I don't think you're even ready for rural Alaska, let alone the true bush. You fly off the handle way too easily, lady, and Alaska requires a clear, calm head even in the populated areas. You've gotten some really good advice in this thread, but because some of isn't what you want to hear, it's not "helpful," and you've misinterpreted or misread a lot of it. It's only common sense that 20K per year isn't doable for a family of six, and if you don't have common sense, it'll be tough going for you. Sorry to be harsh, but you've come at this with a sense of entitlement that I frankly don't understand.
So it seems Mizzile may have been spot on if your idea of a hero is a white nationalist grifter who lived off state payments for foster children while using those kids as free labor on his *cough* ranch ala LaVoy Finicum (who would still be alive today if he hadn't gone charging out into the snow reaching for his gun). Oregon is my home, and I saw firsthand what those people did to that refuge and that community. If you can glorify a pack of out-of-state losers (many of whom were convicted felons) who literally crapped all over a wildlife refuge, well, perhaps Mizzile has a good point.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 11-08-2016 at 03:00 AM..
Well, I spent a decent amount of time working today rather than thinking about how being on my period might be affecting my feelings concerning online discourse, but that's just me.
Nobody told you that you couldn't have livestock because predators (although that's certainly a consideration -- goats in particular attract bears). What I said is that raising meat doesn't make sense when you consider the cost of bringing in pretty much all of their food. A bullet is much cheaper. Buying meat at the store is much cheaper. Nobody said you couldn't hunt or fish or grow a garden. We're just trying to tell you that things are much different here, but you don't seem to want to hear it. So by all means, drag your four kids up and find out for yourself what it's like to try to survive on a husband's odd jobs and investments that may or may not pan out someday. You can probably get food stamps, and maybe the perm fund will last a few more years; you might clean up on that pretty good with four kids.
Personally, I don't think you're even ready for rural Alaska, let alone the true bush. You fly off the handle way too easily, lady, and Alaska requires a clear, calm head even in the populated areas. You've gotten some really good advice in this thread, but because some of isn't what you want to hear, it's not "helpful," and you've misinterpreted or misread a lot of it. It's only common sense that 20K per year isn't doable for a family of six, and if you don't have common sense, it'll be tough going for you. Sorry to be harsh, but you've come at this with a sense of entitlement that I frankly don't understand.
So it seems Mizzile may have been spot on if your idea of a hero is a white nationalist grifter who lived off state payments for foster children while using those kids as free labor on his *cough* ranch ala LaVoy Finicum (who would still be alive today if he hadn't gone charging out into the snow reaching for his gun). Oregon is my home, and I saw firsthand what those people did to that refuge and that community. If you can glorify a pack of out-of-state losers (many of whom were convicted felons) who literally crapped all over a wildlife refuge, well, perhaps Mizzile has a good point.
Yep, shes not ready. And if the finicum worship wasnt a joke, alaskans dont want them. Honey, weve listened to you on multiple threads throw around your crazy ideas and people have been super patient and helpful with you. You HAVENT EVEN BEEN TO ALASKA and are discarding the advice of those who live there. This reads like one of those "help we moved to alaska and now cant move back !" threads in the making. Note: if you cant even afford a scouting trip, you cant afford alaska. Alaskans: stop helping this woman, her family will just wind up another drag on your social services, all while whining about "big gubmint".
Thank you to those who have tried to help me here. Fwiw, there's no finicum worship going on, there was a fundraiser to help his family. hes not my hero. FYI, when the malhuer situation unfolded it was my husband who stood up and defied bundy, told him he was dead wrong, and that none of the Oregon or Idaho groups would be going with him. So instead of heading in there with a couple hundred people, he went with a dozen or so, many of whom turned out to be paid informants. It's easy to make assumptions about someone based on a few forum postings, but there's usually a lot more to the story. But, I do want to be clear, that I'm not a racist, nor an Aamon fan. That man and his poor decisions cost me more personally than you can imagine.
I'm not going to insist I'm ready for bush living today. I'm almost certainly not. I didn't start out with the assumption that I was. I started the thread primarily to begin looking to the future, about what the logistics of life in the bush would be, so I could research and plan and make myself ready. Do I still intend to look at what I can learn about the lives of people who do live in the bush, to try and learn from that? You bet.
I do not enjoy tons of interactions with people. I loathe fielding all the personality and ego considerations. I probably do fly off the handle way too easily. I very much enjoy the peace that comes with solitude. i do not intend to fill my life with frequent personal interactions with others, because I already know it isn't helpful to me. I pop on this forum now and then to field ideas and questions, and there's been a lot of great information and advice, but also a whole lot of the same old negative crap that just makes me remember why I'm not a people person.
We can afford a scouting trip. Previously we weren't sure how or when things would go, so we were waiting until it could be a house buying trip. If we come up, it will be with the whole family and won't be a cheap thing, so it is prudent to consider carefully when we do it, and to get the most bang for the buck.
I don't think I've been throwing around crazy ideas on all my threads. Sure, some ideas aren't good, some are premature. I don't know what I don't know. Without some more research into the budget areas, I won't know what's reasonable for an annual budget. With no mortgage, income, or property taxes, that's a big drop in expenses, compared to any budget I've done before. I do know that income taxes may be instituted, and obviously that will be given consideration in potential projections. I would entirely expect that first year set up costs will be high, and living expenses will be higher for lots of reasons, like the subsistence laws, and learning curves, etc. but once settled in, a few years down the road, I don't anticipate needing $80-$100k. Maybe $20k is way too low, but I'm figuring a budget on paper, there's no reason to question my common sense or my suitability for residence because you think my initial budget is way off. Maybe $40k will be the number, maybe $60k. I won't know until I get some data to work with. And as with any budget, there's a bazillion variables. I may suck at fishing. I may have to buy way more food than I anticipate. If food costs the first few years are such a monstrous drain on funds, I may resurrect my idea (crazy idea) of bring my food storage with me.
Metlakatla, I'm sure you have a busy, fulfilling life, and that you're on here to peruse, and try to help the Alaska wannabes with your candid thoughts based on personal experience. This forum and any comments or conversations here are a small sideline for you. I work hard as well. Raising four young children, mostly on my own, isn't a cakewalk. The difference for me is that I'm planning a move that will turn everything I've ever known upside down. I have to seriously consider and ponder the words you write, even if I don't like them, even if I think you're just being petty, or rude, or whatever. Because what if you're right? So no, I'm not angonizing over some Internet post because I'm into cyber drama, I do it because I am in the position of doing major self analysis before I abandon a hometown where I was born and raised and where I know most every detail about the land, the mountains, every aspect of living here. That's a serious thing, and I take it seriously. That is why I spend time to think it through, to plan, brainstorm, come up with questions, and analyze your comments, even the snarky ones. I need to do continual gut checks to make sure this is the right move.
You know, I don't know if anyone has asked or if I've offered up why I want to come to Alaska. Why not the Oregon mountains, like the homestead we looked at last year? Why not north Idaho, with all the other wackaloons? Why not Maine? its not like we haven't considered all these places, and more. I didn't just see a reality tv show and become enamored with a lifestyle that isn't real to begin with. I want a place where the concept of living the way I want, without the constant threat if government encroachment dictating what I can and can't do. Oregon, particularly my part of Oregon, has been pretty freaking awesome for that. It's changing rapidly. I could probably live out my life here doing as I please, but my children and grandchildren probably not. North Idaho is very pretty, lots of people there looking for things similar to us. But honestly, my opinion is that it's becoming a tinderbox about to go off. I've had more than enough drama and federal involvement in the last couple years to do me for a lifetime. I am ready to live in peace, in a place where I can have a reasonable hope that my kids and grandkids can also live in relative peace. I don't see the second amendment being dramatically screwed with in Alaska. I don't see homeschool laws tightening down year after year up there. Those and other freedoms that are important to me, they seem stable there. That is a big factor for me. The lack of population density is also a draw. I can get out far enough here in Oregon, probably in Maine, but it's really expensive to do so, and it brings back the federal involvement via Blm and usfs.
I may get up to Alaska and wig out about the cold. About the dark. About the summer light. About the food costs. I may hate salmon after a whole winter of it (no, I don't believe that one is possible, lol). But I'm going to try. I'm not going to put my family in a position of dying to do so. I'm not headed out to the magic bus. But I'm headed to Alaska.
I'll stop posting on here. I'll keep my crazy ideas and my research questions to myself. I'll keep reading the posts from others, there's info to be gained from time to time. Maybe someday you'll see a middle aged lady with a tie dye orygun sweatshirt and a pack of kids up there, and maybe it will be me. And someday, I may even end up living in the bush. :-) :-) :-)
You know, I don't know if anyone has asked or if I've offered up why I want to come to Alaska. Why not the Oregon mountains, like the homestead we looked at last year? Why not north Idaho, with all the other wackaloons? Why not Maine? its not like we haven't considered all these places, and more. I didn't just see a reality tv show and become enamored with a lifestyle that isn't real to begin with. I want a place where the concept of living the way I want, without the constant threat if government encroachment dictating what I can and can't do. Oregon, particularly my part of Oregon, has been pretty freaking awesome for that. It's changing rapidly. I could probably live out my life here doing as I please, but my children and grandchildren probably not. North Idaho is very pretty, lots of people there looking for things similar to us. But honestly, my opinion is that it's becoming a tinderbox about to go off. I've had more than enough drama and federal involvement in the last couple years to do me for a lifetime. I am ready to live in peace, in a place where I can have a reasonable hope that my kids and grandkids can also live in relative peace. I don't see the second amendment being dramatically screwed with in Alaska. I don't see homeschool laws tightening down year after year up there. Those and other freedoms that are important to me, they seem stable there. That is a big factor for me. The lack of population density is also a draw. I can get out far enough here in Oregon, probably in Maine, but it's really expensive to do so, and it brings back the federal involvement via Blm and usfs.
Alaska is arguably the most federally managed state in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzile
Please understand that Dick P. had a massive amount of skill, experience, and connections to do what he did (not minimizing it at all, he's awesome, but most people don't realize how much experience he had up to that point).
People keep citing Dick Proenneke, but maybe a better example is Heimo and Edna Korth, who actually did the whole isolation thing with children. But I would point out that most tellings of their lifestyle gloss over or leave out that they did lose a child there. Honestly, for me, there are just too many illnesses and accidents that are potentially deadly in the absence of rescue and medical services, but readily survivable with them, to put my kids into an inaccessible location. It's one thing to take those risks myself, another to compel dependent children to.
And someday, I may even end up living in the bush. :-) :-) :-)
You seem to be using "bush" as a synonym for extremely rural, isolated, off-the-grid, etc. In Alaska parlance it's not, although there can be overlap. There are non-bush residences that are off-the-grid and isolated, and bush residences that are located smack in the middle of a sizable village that has shopping, medical, schools, etc.
MouseBandit: Here is a tag line from another forum that you need to heed!
"Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska. If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you."
Hey -- you're the one who's said several times that you can't afford a scouting trip. Don't blame Boulder2015 or anyone else for taking you at your word. And anyone who puts out a 20K budget out there and plans on feeding four kids with odd jobs doesn't have a clue. How are you planning on paying for your health insurance, by the way, or does the government you hate so much get to pick up the tab for that as well?
Quote:
FYI, when the malhuer situation unfolded it was my husband who stood up and defied bundy, told him he was dead wrong, and that none of the Oregon or Idaho groups would be going with him
This tells me all I need to know about the kind of people you and your husband are. Mizzile was dead on about you. I don't think your kind is going to fit in too well around Homer., either.
So, what could go wrong with "rolling up " to Alaska sight unseen with four kids, no job, no common sense, a head full of white supremacist garbage (that's exactly what those groups are so don't waste your time with some mile-long rationalization), with every thought clouded by irrational paranoia, and a marginal amount of money?
Again, Mizzile, I'm impressed with your instincts.
I suggest you go over to the Alaska Outdoor Forums and ask your questions there. They're even sicker of this sort of thing than we are, and they'll make you appreciate the fact that some people here actually tried to help you.
ETA your home and property look pretty Dogpatch, by the way. I suppose another thing you'll have to learn is how to keep things clean and in good repair -- it's not just an aesthetic consideration, either.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 11-08-2016 at 05:31 PM..
If you care to hear it from yet another long term AK resident (who does live off the road but not in what I would consider the bush), these statements in your post sent up some flags and why is in italics:
I do not enjoy tons of interactions with people. I loathe fielding all the personality and ego considerations. I probably do fly off the handle way too easily. I very much enjoy the peace that comes with solitude. i do not intend to fill my life with frequent personal interactions with others, because I already know it isn't helpful to me. I pop on this forum now and then to field ideas and questions, and there's been a lot of great information and advice, but also a whole lot of the same old negative crap that just makes me remember why I'm not a people person.
People who live in the more remote and insular communities here are very dependent on each other...have to be. Someone may be the only source of a particular skill, owner of a tool or a plane, dog team, vehicle, etc, or have a reputation for helpfulness, generosity, and patience their other neighbors need from time to time. People help because they understand how tough life is and know it will come back around when they need it. I would suggest that the very people you want to get away from become pretty important in some circumstances. You must be willing and able to give as well as take with a good heart. Strong-willed, tough, and independent people HAVE egos and HAVE personalities that you have to deal with. Can't escape that. As soon as someone gets a reputation for being difficult, self-centered, or intolerant they can be discarded or dismissed as not worth the trouble, and that can be lethal. The people who have been participating on this thread may be negative, but they are also truthful and speak from grim experience. Why the heck wouldn't they? Lack of population density is fine until you really need someone.
I want a place where the concept of living the way I want, without the constant threat if government encroachment dictating what I can and can't do. I've had more than enough drama and federal involvement in the last couple years to do me for a lifetime. I am ready to live in peace, in a place where I can have a reasonable hope that my kids and grandkids can also live in relative peace. I don't see the second amendment being dramatically screwed with in Alaska. I don't see homeschool laws tightening down year after year up there. Those and other freedoms that are important to me, they seem stable there. That is a big factor for me. The lack of population density is also a draw. I can get out far enough here in Oregon, probably in Maine, but it's really expensive to do so, and it brings back the federal involvement via Blm and usfs.
Threat of government dictating what you can do??? You have to realize that both federal and state government have a huge presence in AK. Even if you don't happen to live on a private inholding within a BLM, NPS, or USFWS reserve, the land upon which you will probably need to gather, fish, hunt, travel, trap, graze, or cut timber off is managed by such agencies. You can't ignore the laws and regulations in place there any more than you can ignore them in OR or Maine. Ironically, one reason there is so much remote intact land left to offer the chance to homestead is because the land IS still under government management and not in private hands. People here may disagree with particular regulations the agencies impose, but that doesn't change the reality that government has as much if not more presence in AK. If you want any say in how you make use of publicly managed land here you MUST deal with federal or state government and the public processes they use!
And, as has been mentioned many times already, getting out far enough is really really expensive to do here too. Remote is remote no matter what state label it has on it. 5 miles from the end of an ATV trail in AK is the same as 5 miles from the end of an ATV trail in Maine. What makes more of a difference is local geology and local weather and how far and how expensive it was to buy the fuel and the stuff you need to haul.
And BTW, the comment about "you can only eat so much fish".....I have eaten spawned out, furry-tailed dog salmon for days at a time and hope I NEVER have to do that again! Even now years after that little event my toes curl up when salmon is the only thing on a friend's dinner invitation menu. Oh how spoiled we are.
Last edited by Parnassia; 11-08-2016 at 07:28 PM..
I have no idea who's blog that is, it's not anything to do with me or my husband. I don't know what photos of my home you've seen (or if they're even of my home), but the homestead is only about 6 months old, and we're building it up as quickly as we can from practically nothing. I'm quite pleased with the progress, considering the husband is only here 2 days a week to work on it.
Again, let me be crystal clear - we're not white supremacists, nothing of the sort. I don't know where you come off with such a nasty thing to say. You can declare whatever you want, but you don't know me. If you want to read anything written by my husband, go to Facebook, it's all there, easy peasy access. No need to guess or assume or just flat out lie to slander me. Please stop!
I don't know what else you said in your reply, I'd like to let this drop, but I really don't like having you post links that have nothing to do with me, and making crazy, totally false accusations about me. Again, if anyone would like to know who I am, or what I espouse and believe, feel free to look me up on Facebook, Tracey Hamilton Roberts. Don't just pick some blog at random and say, hey that's her, for crying out loud. (Lets use some common sense, shall we?)
And in case other readers are missing it amidst all the name calling here, I was somewhat toying with the idea of skipping the first couple years near town, and thinking maybe we could go straight to living off road, or in the bush, but that doesn't look realistic so I am back to the original plan of living on the road system, not tremendously far out, for a few years, and continue to research and learn what it would take to live more remotely, perhaps even in the bush, one day. That seems to keep getting missed.
So, if we can stop calling me names, Metlakatla can stop ranting about what she insists I believe and linking to random blogs that have zero to do with me, and if we can bear in mind that I am not intending to go live in the bush anytime soon, I'd love to let this go and focus on other aspects of planning our move. Thanks.
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