Weapon recommendations for use in the Bush (Haines: job, price)

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Emler

Problem with buckshot is the pattern. At 40 yards it might be one to three feet between the projectiles.

That is the advantage of the buckshot at 40 yards.

If you shoot a bear at 40 yards in Alaska and claim it was in self defense you might (and should) be charged with illegal hunting.

Trying to scare one off at that range is fine, killing one is stupid. Neither penetration nor a tight pattern is significant at 40 yards, but a spread out pattern might help scare the bear.

Originally Posted by Jeff Emler

I can't imagine an ideal firearm for something like an attacking bear.

Heh heh... a 12 gauge, pump shot gun, loaded with either all slugs or with alternating buckshot and slugs in whatever order you prefer!

Originally Posted by Jeff Emler

From what I've read, an attack can come from a hundred yards away and consist of a charge; to an ambush from only several feet away.

From a hundred yards away, it isn't an attack. It is almost certainly a ploy to see if you run (aka, a "false charge"). If you run, obviously you qualify as dinner.

Originally Posted by Jeff Emler

I suppose the ideal scenario would be a large capacity, semiautomatic rifle for the charges and, if that fails, a handgun for the close combat and a bayonet for when it really gets dirty.

I wouldn't choose a semiautomatic under any circumstances. But when my children were little my choice was a 30-06 with 220 grain bullets. You do have to be able to distinguish between the bear and the kid, and with more than one kid running around fishing on a gravel bar, or up on a hill picking blueberries, there is the possibility that the range might be over 40 yards. We also camped with a 12 gauge shotgun though.

One point to get VERY clear too, is that you do not ever set that weapon down. If it is leaning up against a tree and you are turned the wrong way at the right time, you're dead.

[DannyL]

these are a fav of mine also...

Garrett Cartridges Online - Products

- scroll down to the 540 gr


- pretty good reading....

Garrett Cartridges Online

[RoaminRed]

You do realize that since you've used "bush" and "weapons" in the same sentence that the Black Helicopters will be tracking your movements.

[snowpuppy]

LOL!

Wow- lots of great advice and links. Thanks guys, for taking the time to post your recommendations. So much to choose from!

[BudinAk]

Originally Posted by DannyL

these are a fav of mine also...

Garrett Cartridges Online - Products

- scroll down to the 540 gr


- pretty good reading....

Garrett Cartridges Online

Yep! Both Garrett and Corbon are superb ammo. If you have a 45/70, get either brand. I still think buckshot is useless, penetration is simply not there. If you want to "scare off" a bear, you could do it just as well with a slug. Slugs are not just bigger than buckshot, they are also loaded to higher velocity (commonly 1550 to 1600 fps). Load all slugs...and have a fighting chance at staying alive. But buckshot, I think, is taking the risk of joining the food chain. In so many incidents with bear charges, they only had time for ONE SHOT. They need to go DOWN on that FIRST shot, (not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc). I have absolutely no use whatsover for a bear, but if I HAVE TO take one, (a him or me scenario) then I want something that will work. I'm loading all slugs...

Bud

[rotorhead]

Hornady has got a lot of really good and innovative loadings out there. If you're deadset on an AR type rifle I'd say the .450 Bushmaster might just work, as far as the 6.8SPC....not too confidence building in my book on any game larger than whitetails. Yes it's better than the .223, but almost every other centerfire cartridge is as well.

If you're looking for a zero-risk way of effectively hunting brown bear, I'd say that a belt-fed M2 .50 caliber with either ball or armor piercing ammo would be sufficient when used from your (preferably twin-engine) helicopter or tracked armored personnel carrier. A 20mm cannon would be better, and the 25mm chain-gun as used in the Armys Bradley IFVs would be about ideal. Of course, this isn't particular sporting and would result in a thoroughly dead bear that's usuable for neither meat nor trophy. I suspect that you would encounter considerable resistance from the Alaska Wildlife Troopers if you were to propose using these methods.

Like flying, hunting brown bears is always going to impose some degree of risk. Even when you're not hunting, just using their habitat also exposes you to risk, it's unavoidable. People argue endlessly about which caliber and which gun is the "best", but in actuality a little bit of common sense and a fair amount of justifiable caution goes MUCH further towards keeping you safe than any firearm will.

Don't hang around bear food sources, stay away from sows with cubs, and avoid terrain and environments (thick brush, creeksides) where you can't help surprising them in a close encounter and you'll probably never need a "bear gun". Of course strictly following this advice also makes it basically impossible to conduct many common outdoor activities like salmon fishing and berry picking, but thats a tradeoff you have to make if you choose to participate.

The cheapest and best insurance for mistakes on your part is undoubtedly bear spray. The next level up (again, cheapest and best) is a 12 ga. loaded with slugs. No, it's not glamourous or expensive and the recoil is fierce, but when you look at what the wildlife folks carry and use for bear in almost every state, you find a 12 ga. in the truck.

[DannyL]

I posted months ago about an old (16 yr??) brownie over in Hoonah that was a "dump bear" and had lost all fear of people. The VPO took him out last fall in the road with one shot with his Marlin 45-70 loaded with Garrett Hammerhead +P 420 gr. One shot and he went straight down, but he used a second finishing shot to end it immediately. If I remember correctly all this happened at about 30 yards.

[Jeff Emler]

Originally Posted by rotorhead

If you're looking for a zero-risk way of effectively hunting brown bear, I'd say that a belt-fed M2 .50 caliber with either ball or armor piercing ammo would be sufficient when used from your (preferably twin-engine) helicopter or tracked armored personnel carrier. A 20mm cannon would be better, and the 25mm chain-gun as used in the Armys Bradley IFVs would be about ideal. Of course, this isn't particular sporting and would result in a thoroughly dead bear that's usuable for neither meat nor trophy. I suspect that you would encounter considerable resistance from the Alaska Wildlife Troopers if you were to propose using these methods. )

Yep, you can bet a Ma Deuce would make him put his **** in the dirt!

is a 12 ga. loaded with slugs. No, it's not glamourous or expensive and the recoil is fierce, but when you look at what the wildlife folks carry and use for bear in almost every state, you find a 12 ga. in the truck.

I did some work with .12 guage slugs once. I tried regular old rifle slugs in a smoothbore and I can honestly tell you those things are miserable. Past 40-50 yards accuracy is a guessing game at best.

I cast and loaded some of my own slugs. These were from a Lyman mold and looked like giant air rifle pellets. Again, accuracy was dismal and keyholing was almost a given with each shot. These were fired in a smoothbore also.

I did go shooting with a friend who had a brand new rifled barrel shotgun through which we fired saboted slugs and accuracy improved significantly...about 5-6" groups at 60 yards.

One thing I found consistent with ALL shotgun slugs was the trajectory....fired perfectly parallel to the ground they HIT the ground under a hundred yards.

I won't doubt the effectiveness of a shotgun at close ranges but the idea of waiting for an errant animal to get close enough for an effective shot is disconcerting.

[Marty Van Diest]

Originally Posted by Jeff Emler

I won't doubt the effectiveness of a shotgun at close ranges but the idea of waiting for an errant animal to get close enough for an effective shot is disconcerting.

If you shoot a bear much farther out than 10 yards or so and then claim it was in defense of life...you lose.

I really don't know if there is actually a regulation distance, but I have been false charged by bears and approached by bears much closer than 10 yards only to have them walk away.

I don't think shotguns are meant to be lethal on a bear much farther than 20-30 yards and that may even be too far. Most people that carry shotguns are intending to use them at 10 yards or less. At that distance, it's not the shotguns fault if you miss.

[Jeff Emler]

Originally Posted by Marty Van Diest

If you shoot a bear much farther out than 10 yards or so and then claim it was in defense of life...you lose.

I really don't know if there is actually a regulation distance, but I have been false charged by bears and approached by bears much closer than 10 yards only to have them walk away.

I don't think shotguns are meant to be lethal on a bear much farther than 20-30 yards and that may even be too far. Most people that carry shotguns are intending to use them at 10 yards or less. At that distance, it's not the shotguns fault if you miss.

I guess the trick would be knowing the difference between a false charge and a real one.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that leaving town much farther than a mile or so was ill advised unless accompanied by someone experienced with the bush. This is probably why.

I recall reading a story about a guy who was charged from well over 50 yards away. He had time to get off 5 rounds with his hunting rifle and the bear dropped feet from him. Turns out this thing was the biggest brown bear ever recorded. It is mounted in that state's airport (can't remember the name of the state). This thing was HUGE and it dwarfed normal sized bears. They attributed an earlier attack on a hiker to this particular bear in which they found the guy half eaten. They also found a .38 caliber revolver on the dead guy, and dug some .38 caliber slugs out of the bear.

Maybe an urban legend?

Here it is I found it.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/giantbear.htm