A tunnel connecting Russia and Alaska

[rotorhead]

The whole idea falls squarely into the pipedream/fantasy category. It's come up again as a result of Bushs upcoming visit to Putin, as it has about every fifty years or so since 1905 or so, when it was originally proposed.

"recycled" got it dead to rights, why build a tunnel when there's no roads anywhere near the endpoints? Remember that the Channel Tunnel only works because it links two densely populated areas, both with good road systems. THAT tunnel makes sense, at least. If you're dead-set on building a tunnel to nowhere why not connect Juneau with the Alcan highway? The road they're proposing now runs through so many avalanche zones it'll practically be a tunnel anyway, and it won't even connect to a road at the end, just another ferry terminal.

If the point is to start some huge engineering project for it's own sake, why not build something truely useful, like a railroad link between the US and Alaska, or the gas pipeline, or both? That's something we could really use.

[GregW]

The Trans Pacific Tunnel - hurrah

This could be part of an integrated energy/freight/passenger transport system linking our economy with the resources of East Russia and the industry of China. Something of this magnitude could allow the development of a ground transit system I have invented (PM for Details – I need help developing this technology) that can carry huge freight tonnage at very high speed.

A transport system of this size could revitalize the industrial economy of the United States without requiring us to be in a state perpetual warfare. It would also reduce the potential military tension because linked economies try to avoid war as means of settling disputes.

This is potentially one of the most profitable opportunities in this century. Great idea.

[arctichomesteader]

I wouldn't trust the Russians enough to allow it.

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by Rance

One good earthquake and it's toast. This is just a pipedream. Why build a tunnel when you can walk across the ice in the winter? Duh...

Well, I'm looking at the future (a hobby of mine, BTW). LOTS of things we take for granted today were silly "pipe dreams" just a relatively few decades ago. I vividly recall the same things being said when folks first heard of the Alaska Pipeline ("an 800-mile long pipe through a wilderness? You're NUTS"...or words to that effect). Even WORSE was the idea of bringing 10,000 Texans and Okies to Fairbanks. That wasn't only INSANE, it was DISASTROUS ) (joking here) I knew LOTS of guys who went for the adventure AND the 'big bucks'.
Again, as I stated, this wouldn't be a 'scenic road' lined with motels, campgrounds, and restaurants, so Mr and Mrs "casual tourist" could take a vacation drive over to Vladivostok. (That WOULD be silly)... What I'm suggesting is a means to transport huge amounts of heavy, bulk freight over long distances. Remember, a rail line takes up VERY little 'right-of-way'. It's 'amenities' (bridges, tunnels, cuts and fills) are HUGELY narrower, and thus cheaper than what is required for a highway. And there would be little 'support system" needed along the way. Just a dream NOW, but I'm not ready to bet it could NEVER happen. In fact, the actual "impact" on the land, of a rail line, would probably be closer to that of a pipeline, rather than a highway. No 'public facilities' needed.

I'm surprised nobody's "nailed me" on the problem of railroad guage. Standard RR guage here in North America is 4' 8 1/2" (don't ask me WHY) . In Russia, I believe it's 2 or 3 inches wider. This COULD be a problem...yet, today, trains run between Western Russia and China, requiring a brief stop to change 'trucks' (wheel assemblies) to accomodate the foreign guage. Must be a nuisance, true...but apparently, they've got it 'down to a science' (like an Indianapolis pit crew) and it's done pretty quickly.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by macmeal

I vividly recall the same things being said when folks first heard of the Alaska Pipeline ("an 800-mile long pipe through a wilderness? You're NUTS"...or words to that effect).

I don't recall anyone saying that. Or, at least not anyone with half an thimblefull of brains... With 100 billion dollars worth of oil known to exist (which could be stolen from the Natives who owned it for only 1 billion dollars), an 800 mile pipeline was nothing!

Originally Posted by macmeal

Even WORSE was the idea of bringing 10,000 Texans and Okies to Fairbanks. That wasn't only INSANE, it was DISASTROUS ) (joking here)

Joke??? That WAS a real disaster.

The problem was actually that Jesse Carr, head of the Teamster's Union and at the time the most powerful man in Alaska, make a gross error! He insisted that every Texan headed for home take a pair of Okies, one under each arm. We got rid of the Okies, but that 2:1 ratio left a lot of Texans behind. They bought the State Legislature, and stayed. That was a genuine disaster.

[dmyankee]

Why bother.

The current projection by some climatologists is free travel right through the pole by 2050. Ain't global warming grand!

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

I don't recall anyone saying that. Or, at least not anyone with half an thimblefull of brains... With 100 billion dollars worth of oil known to exist (which could be stolen from the Natives who owned it for only 1 billion dollars), an 800 mile pipeline was nothing!
Joke??? That WAS a real disaster.

The problem was actually that Jesse Carr, head of the Teamster's Union and at the time the most powerful man in Alaska, make a gross error! He insisted that every Texan headed for home take a pair of Okies, one under each arm. We got rid of the Okies, but that 2:1 ratio left a lot of Texans behind. They bought the State Legislature, and stayed. That was a genuine disaster.

JESSIE CARR?..Sounds like someone with the United Auto Workers..... Seriously, though, I'm sure Fairbanks P.D. got used to the new law-enforcement techniques required when the boys hit town on payday..."FREEZE !! (get it...'Freeze'..Fairbanks?)...now STEP AWAY from that pickup truck REAL S-L-O-W-L-Y....keep those hands where I can see them.... Hmmmm...Texans, huh? Turn around VERY slowly, ALL of you...and let me see the backs of your belts, so I can read your names"......

[rotorhead]

I'd like to see the Environmental Impact Study for a 3000+ mile-long railroad construction project. Should't be more than a couple feet thick...once you get in onto CDRoms.

Seriously though, the ONLY reason the AlCan highway went through that fast was because there was a war on. They'd spend that much time just working on the proposal these days, let alone any actual planning. I can see every greeny-weenie and BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything) zealot in the world having a crack at a project like that, you'd be in court forever.

I say lets have them practice by running a railroad link up through Canada, connecting Alaska to the mainland US by rail. THAT's something we could use today.

[rotorhead]

I'd like to see the Environmental Impact Study for a 3000+ mile-long railroad construction project. Should't be more than a couple feet thick...once you get in onto CDRoms.

Seriously though, the ONLY reason the AlCan highway went through that fast was because there was a war on. They'd spend that much time just working on the proposal these days, let alone any actual planning. I can see every greeny-weenie and BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything) zealot in the world having a crack at a project like that, you'd be in court forever.

I say lets have them practice by running a railroad link up through Canada, connecting Alaska to the mainland US by rail. THAT's something we could use today.

[The Iglooman]

At the moment, this project is a pipe dream. But most big projects are. Abromovich isn't planning on doing it right now, this is just the British media doing what they do best: speculating.

For a project of this magnitude one should look at the terminuses as a great circle route. This is the way airplanes plot their courses over long distances. If you plot a great circle line from Shanghai to Chicago it tracks pretty close to Alaska and a possible route. If the cost for ton per mile between rail and ship is competitive I could see this project happening in the next 50 years. The main west coast ports in California and Washington are absolutely huge. A rail route could decentralize the freight processing points in the US and help relieve congestion at the current ports.

Originally Posted by rotorhead

I say lets have them practice by running a railroad link up through Canada, connecting Alaska to the mainland US by rail. THAT's something we could use today.

I agree. In fact this is already in the pre-planning stages.