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Old 06-22-2008, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
1,883 posts, read 2,106,454 times
Reputation: 1279

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[quote=Floyd_Davidson;4161515]Most people who make that statement have almost no exposure to the totallity of the North Slope, and have never seen any part of it other than where the oil companies have taken them. Have you, for example, any perception of the cultures, the villages, the people or the geography and how all of those are inter-dependent? Have you been to Kaktovik, have you eaten caribou, goose soup or whitefish or maktaq? Do you know the difference between Prudhoe Bay and Deese Bay? Or the difference between Milne Point and Point Hope?

Yes, Floyd, I've been to these areas, not by oil companies tours, I worked in the Northern Areas of Alaska for 8 years as a communications technician, if the village had a radio I most likely serviced it. Yes, I've eaten caribou, goose soup, whitefish and maktag. If these are your qualifications as someone with experience, then I guess I qualify. I know the difficulties these villagers experience living in these areas, and I also know that allot of their fears are brought on by the fear tactics of people who have never been to these remote areas and most likely couldn't even find them on a map, yet, they claim to be the experts.
Floyd, have you ever been to Point Hope, Point Lay, Kaktovik or any of the other North Slope villages? Have you ever spent a few days with these villagers, have you ever sat down and talked with them? Most of my trips into these villages required me to spend a few days and as you might know allot of these small villages have no accommodations for visitors, so I was "put up" by the head of the village, which lead to some interesting conversations.
So I'm not talking out of my a**, I'm talking from the stand point of been there.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:38 PM
 
457 posts, read 658,398 times
Reputation: 206
You can slice and dice all the data but theres so much bad sghyt my heart breaks daily over the situation.

For instance; to save the value of spending a few Yuan for animal fur processors in China , these chinese furiers quit using bullets to kill the mink and fox and are skinning the animals alive. Dont believe me? You tube-- but dont its graphic and traumatizing.

AND WERE GONNA SHOP AT WALLMART!!!!! Old Sam Walton was a traitor. All I will say is ; ' You killing tortureing bashtards''' you'll be punished one day and I say yes You deserve it all. The USA is dealing with China that has no conscience . And the USA will get wipped.

Yes , Im in the bush and digging nature and watching magic,,, but if we dont wake up the torture will go on and on.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Alaska
1,437 posts, read 3,195,087 times
Reputation: 882
we were screwed the day everything was put in the hands of wall street and the speculators.
a few people are making billions over stuff that hasn't even been made yet.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:39 PM
 
Location: The Woods
14,417 posts, read 13,710,799 times
Reputation: 6071
"banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies" -Thomas Jefferson

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -Jefferson also

"This country has nothing to fear from the crooked man who fails. We put him in jail. It is the crooked man who succeeds who is a threat to this country." -Theodore Roosevelt

Last edited by arctichomesteader; 06-22-2008 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
13,047 posts, read 14,652,567 times
Reputation: 8425
Well, I can see how some folks from Seattle believe that we Alaskans are crazy. Just look at this thread: some wacko-environmentalist from "France" with a political agenda posts here, and all of us go crazy screaming at each other and running in different directions. We took the bait from someone who may not even be from France, but perhaps a Canadian without a sense of country or nation, or maybe an American who moved into Canada after Bush won the last elections.

The guy reads some political news from a Canadian paper and you believe it? Come on! Don't you already know that we depend on Canada for oil, gasoline, diesel fuel, heating fuel, and electricity? Don't you already know that the Canadian economy depends on oil? How can you believe that Canadians are anti oil production? Are we really that crazy? Now we are attacking banks too What's next, cow farts and burps damaging the ozone hole?
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Old 06-22-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
1,020 posts, read 2,319,155 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
Good post SuValley



Read on... what or who does this sound like?

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.


That is the most aweful piece of writing I think I have ever read before. Can we get that printed on toilet paper?
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Old 06-22-2008, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,538 posts, read 4,500,017 times
Reputation: 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
Do you know the difference between Prudhoe Bay and Deese Bay? Or the difference between Milne Point and Point Hope?
Yes, Floyd, I've been to these areas, not by oil companies tours, I worked in the Northern Areas of Alaska for 8 years as a communications technician, if the village had a radio I most likely serviced it. Yes, I've eaten caribou, goose soup, whitefish and maktag. If these are your qualifications as someone with experience, then I guess I qualify. I know the difficulties these villagers experience living in these areas, and I also know that allot of their fears are brought on by the fear tactics of people who have never been to these remote areas and most likely couldn't even find them on a map, yet, they claim to be the experts.
You seem to have totally missed the point that I was making... that even people who have been there don't necessarily have a clue about what the significance is. Visiting the North Slope is not the same as living here. Spending a few days in ANWR, or a village, isn't going to make you or me or anyone else an "expert".

And I do question whether you know what you say you know. (Lets see you give one liner descriptions of the difference between the two Bays mentioned above and the two Points mentioned. In fact, I can do it in two words!)

Quote:
Floyd, have you ever been to Point Hope, Point Lay, Kaktovik or any of the other North Slope villages? Have you ever spent a few days with these villagers, have you ever sat down and talked with them? Most of my trips into these villages required me to spend a few days and as you might know allot of these small villages have no accommodations for visitors, so I was "put up" by the head of the village, which lead to some interesting conversations.
Not only have I spent weeks in those villages, I spent years living in a small village. And have lived on the North Slope for over a decade now.

For you this is a place to visit. For me, this is home. Trying to measure gray whiskers won't be productive for you in this discussion.

Quote:
So I'm not talking out of my a**, I'm talking from the stand point of been there.
I wasn't being that crude, but for bush residents... people like yourself are talking from the wrong orfice.

Generally most people have to actually live in a village for maybe two or three years to adjust to the cultural differences. In larger places, such as here in Barrow, some people manage to live here for 2 or 3 times that and never do catch the drift.

But I pointed out that I am not an expert, and instead I search out experts and that I do rely on their work. You are telling me that in far fewer years of visiting a few days at a time you've become an expert??? I don't think so! Tell me how you would be, for example, an expert of subsistence lifestyles? (It generally takes a person 20 years to become self sufficient, never mind being an expert!) Or tell me how you would know more about caribou than ADF&G experts like Ray Cameron and Ken Whitten (the folks whose research I quote repeatedly)?

Let me requote something from my previous article that you should have retained and discussed rather than the above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
Please don't pull the "I've been there I'm and expert" in this forum. I live on the North Slope, and I've seen it from North to South and East to West. I'll be the first one to tell you that I am not an expert in the way you are claiming to be, despite having orders of magnitude more exposure than you even imagine. I do, however, know where there are experts!
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:35 PM
 
124 posts, read 231,102 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_pines View Post
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.


That is the most aweful piece of writing I think I have ever read before. Can we get that printed on toilet paper?


The word "subsidize" just makes my skin crawl.....it is another way of saying ...Let the government get into every aspect of our lives, tell us what to do, pay us a little and take our freedoms, but we will be content, because we get our welfare!

GIVE ME JOBS, doing REAL things, and let me buy my energy efficient vehicle, because it is the right thing to do! Let me put a garden in and work on my own land for a savings in food costs, and not forget how it is done! People are down right lazy these days and have forgotten how to work!

In an earlier post MissingAll4Seasons stated that "subsidizing" was the way to get people to do the right thing, I say the oil companies are doing a much more efficient job of it by raising prices.....it hits everyone. Subsidizing only will affect the poor, the rich will still drive their gas guzzlers, and run the air conditioning in their 26 room homes!
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