Endangered Polar Bears.... NOT! (Barrow: move, interior, population)

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Classic Satch

No problem. I've read literally hundreds of articles on global warming and it really boils down to politics.

If you would read science magazine/journals rather than Right Wingnut political trash you might be able to learn something valid.

The science doesn't support the theory that humans are behind any slight warming over the past 100 years.

And nobody here has said otherwise, so why are you saying they do?

Also, Arctic ice is actually increasing.

False, and this is a good example of the logic you typically post here:

Arctic sea ice extent on July 16 stood at 8.91 million square kilometers (3.44 square miles). While extent was below the 1979 to 2000 average of 9.91 square kilometers (3.83 million square miles), it was 1.05 million square kilometers (0.41 million square miles) above the value for July 16, 2007...

The data shows a distinctly declining level which is not a smooth curve, and you take one bump in the curve to deny what the curve's slope clearly shows. Your statement makes zero sense.

Will MSM Report on 2008 Arctic Ice Increase? | NewsBusters.org

Your source is not credible. It is a political activist voice. The figures they do cite are from an accurate source though, but their conclusions are different. From their source:

"According to scientific measurements, Arctic sea ice
has declined dramatically over at least the past thirty years,
with the most extreme decline seen in the summer melt season."
Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

I would also point out that figures on July 16th have virtually no significance at all! I would direct you to the statement quoted above, about the extremes being seen in the summer melt season. That begins sometime in July. What the currenty available figures (even a month later in August) indicate are that the extent reached during the freeze cycle was greater over last winter than the previous winter. It won't be until October that we can measure how much ice has melted this summer. (Granted that the weather conditions so far this summer are not the same as they were in 2007, and we have no reason at this time to expect another worst case increase in the melt.)

EcoWorld - Features » Blog Archive » A Case Against Climate Alarmism[/quote]

Another less than credible ideologic political rag.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Global warming is real. Anyone who claims otherwise is at least ignorant.

The images you show do not have anything to do with climate. Some of them demonstrate weather. Do you know what the difference is?
Why do you distort what I've said. Out of context distortions are dishonest. Shame on you.

They are your images of ice in August where there isn't suppose to be any according to the far left...

And that has virtually no meaning at all! Before there was an oil production facility there it was possible to take a picture that included virtually the entire Central Arctic Herd, all at once. You can't find as many caribou there today as could be found before oil production began. And you certainly cannot find anything like the entire CAH there.

That was my point, the animals are not in any way being harmed by the oil exploration here, before or after, the fact that they are and have been increasing since the oilfields were established pretty much wipes out the chant that oil is bad. The photos I show are of Caribou and Polar bears, and they are in the thousands here, not one or two that you will find (if you are lucky) around any Town or Village where they are shot on sight in the rest of the North Slope. You clearly have never been here to see what it is like, pretty much like virgin land with critters everywhere along side oil rigs and workers. The reason you have Polar bears in Barrow is because of the high density of them now verses forty years ago when they were legal to hunt, they aren't endangered at all.

Your inability to understand that needs to be kept in mind when other topics are discussed. It is indicative of the level we can expect in every discussion you engage in.

I have been stating facts from standing next to them in both words and pictures which you have proven beyond a doubt you can't grasp.

You have a terrible knack for dishonest statements. I have, of course, never claimed that polar bears are endangered (or even declining, near Barrow or anywhere else). There is no reason for you to post this series of dishonest strawman arguments.

Then why all the claims that they are? And that all the critters are declining, you are the one that needs to rethink your comments.

Yes, you do have a lot of apologizing to do, given the dishonesty in your posts. You've also claimed that I don't even write my own articles, because you do recognize that they are well written. Nothing I post is "off the wall", and I'd appreciate it if you would be more honest. I cite credible sources and use valid logic. Your desciption "off the wall claims and rants" does fit YOUR posts (and you are not alone, there are a couple others).

I am very honest, I did apologize when I realized that you do in fact live in Barrow, and I also felt really sorry for you that you live there and still don't have a clue about the Arctic and it's wildlife.

As for your writing about the base and polar bear attack, too many dates and times for you to know about unless you copied it from a news story, the fact that you know about moving stuff around so it can't be traced on google is pretty cool since I never thought about it before. I was here at the time of the attack and I don't know all the details you "Quoted", unless you did the news article, but you didn't claim to be the reporter. If you can show the paper that you would have done the story for and the story, I would apologize, but your story stinks as someone just "Rattling" off the facts without being the one that did the personal interviews...

Logical analysis and correct facts, absent the ideological bent, would be a excellent way to improve you discussion points. Basically, rely on merit rather than emotion.

You should buy a ticket to come to Dead Horse (Prudhoe Bay), you can't get into the oil fields due to security reasons, but you can drive around the "Town" and still see the critters all over the place that you claim aren't here and there is some companies that do bus tours into the fields which will dispel all of your off the wall views within an hour....

"Proof is in the pudding", you seem to be using sour milk in your mix....

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

They are your images of ice in August where there isn't suppose to be any according to the far left...

You are lying again. This is getting rather tiresome. First, you said that I was the one claiming something, now it is this mysterious "far left". In fact it is your FABRICATION.

Nobody that I know of has said there should not be ice here in August. What has been discussed is the lack of multi-year ice and the lack of pack ice, neither of which were in any of those images. (Not that you would know the difference.)

That was my point, the animals are not in any way being harmed by the oil exploration here,

You say that, but in fact both the USFWS and the ADF&G (which are funded by oil money) say otherwise. Why should anyone believe a thing you say?

The photos I show are of Caribou and Polar bears, and they are in the thousands here, not one or two that you will find (if you are lucky) around any Town or Village where they are shot on sight in the rest of the North Slope.

You are fabricating again. The ADF&G has done annual aerial photo counts of the caribou there, and there are not thousands. I'm not sure what the census is for polar bears in that area, but thousands is ridiculous.

You clearly have never been here to see what it is like,

More fabrication on your part. I've visited virtually everywhere on the North Slope. Moreover, I am a long term permanent full time resident.

The reason you have Polar bears in Barrow is because of the high density of them now verses forty years ago when they were legal to hunt, they aren't endangered at all.

Wow, Sherlock, you really are smart! Where'd you get the clue?

Do you know of anyone posting to this forum who has ever said anything different?

I have been stating facts from standing next to them in both words and pictures which you have proven beyond a doubt you can't grasp.

Your dishonesty is getting to be a bit much.

You know when someone makes a mistake, that's one thing. When someone accidentally posts something wrong, it's no big deal. When people occasionally goof and post false statements, it no big deal either.

But you do it with every single post you make. And it is so blatant!

Then why all the claims that they are? And that all the critters are declining, you are the one that needs to rethink your comments.

Nobody here has ever said that. Why are you lying about it?

I am very honest, I did apologize when I realized that you do in fact live in Barrow, and I also felt really sorry for you that you live there and still don't have a clue about the Arctic and it's wildlife.

Hilarious.

As for your writing about the base and polar bear attack, too many dates and times for you to know about unless you copied it from a news story, the fact that you know about moving stuff around so it can't be traced on google is pretty cool since I never thought about it before.

It isn't possible to do that. As I said, if that article had been a cut and paste job, you would be able to find at least some part of it, a phrase or a sentence, that shows up somewhere. You can't. Not one. That's because I wrote it (all by my little self!) pretty much off the top of my head, though obviously I'm not dumb enough to post anything without checking my facts first. Any half way literate fool would be able to compare the sentence structures, work usages, etc etc and determine that it matches very closely with everything else I write too.

I was here at the time of the attack and I don't know all the details you "Quoted", unless you did the news article, but you didn't claim to be the reporter. If you can show the paper that you would have done the story for and the story, I would apologize, but your story stinks as someone just "Rattling" off the facts without being the one that did the personal interviews...

Yeah, it stinks all right! That's why you claim it has to be a cut and paste job. Giggle snort.

You should buy a ticket to come to Dead Horse (Prudhoe Bay), you can't get into the oil fields due to security reasons,

I don't know about "Dead Horse", but I've been to Deadhorse. And I've been through the security gate too. Shucks, I even know what the name of the place is!

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

You are lying again.
You say that, but in fact both the USFWS and the ADF&G (which are funded by oil money) say otherwise. Why should anyone believe a thing you say?

You are fabricating again. The ADF&G has done annual aerial photo counts of the caribou there, and there are not thousands. I'm not sure what the census is for polar bears in that area, but thousands is ridiculous.

The State claimed that there are some odd Approx. 25,000 polar bears in the region of Northern Alaska+- (that makes them in the thousands) and that is up from some 5,000 in the 1960's. That was the basis of their lawsuit against the Fed's for putting them wrongly on the Endangered Species list. So I would assume that you believe the Governor is a liar too, since she gets her info from ADF& G.

As far as Caribou, you clearly have no clue to the number of animals that live here in the summer months at all... or much of anything else that has to do with reality for that matter...

More fabrication on your part. I've visited virtually everywhere on the North Slope. Moreover, I am a long term permanent full time resident.

Very impressed, a "Long Term Permanent Full Time Resident", how about that, me too, life long for me....

Do you know of anyone posting to this forum who has ever said anything different?

So you are now saying that the Polar Bears are now not endangered and that I am right in my claim... Good for you, you learn very fast! I am impressed!

Your dishonesty is getting to be a bit much.

I can pretty much tell that you don't know the truth if it bit you where the sun don't shine. But that is why I started this Thread, to let people see the difference between someone who is honest about the land and those that claim they know something about the land and you have clearly shown you have no clue.

You know when someone makes a mistake, that's one thing. When someone accidentally posts something wrong, it's no big deal. When people occasionally goof and post false statements, it no big deal either.

But you do it with every single post you make. And it is so blatant!

My mistake it not believing that someone that knows so little of Alaska could claim to live in Barrow, I was wrong and apologized. You do live there and the fact that you have no clue leaves me to wonder what you really do know... other than the cut and paste stuff...

It isn't possible to do that. As I said, if that article had been a cut and paste job, you would be able to find at least some part of it, a phrase or a sentence, that shows up somewhere. You can't. Not one. That's because I wrote it (all by my little self!) pretty much off the top of my head, though obviously I'm not dumb enough to post anything without checking my facts first. Any half way literate fool would be able to compare the sentence structures, work usages, etc etc and determine that it matches very closely with everything else I write too.

Many years ago I was in Law Enforcement, and you fit the profile of someone that takes other's ideas and makes them your own to impress whom ever. You weren't here in the State at the time from what I am told so you knew none of those in the Polar Bear Mauling at the site, you have to copy the information from some other site to get that much detail. I would pretty much figured that you did just what I claimed, and plagiarism is illegal.

Yeah, it stinks all right! That's why you claim it has to be a cut and paste job. Giggle snort.

I never thought stealing ideas or stories from others to make me look important was funny, or something I would do.

I don't know about "Dead Horse", but I've been to Deadhorse. And I've been through the security gate too. Shucks, I even know what the name of the place is!

OOOHHHH, your good, got me on that one... I must have hit that stupid spell checker when I was doing a spell check... It don't know the word "Deadhorse".

The fact that you made it past security once, is not a big deal, like I said earlier, there is a tour bus that can get you though, but you are under their "Care" and restricted to where you can go off the bus.

You really need to get out and get a life.... It is sad to even waste time to respond to your ranting, but it is a bit entertaining to see just how much you don't know, and you keep helping out by responding.

[Wrennie]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Yeah, it stinks all right! That's why you claim it has to be a cut and paste job. Giggle snort.

Oh God I'm falling in love with Floyd from Barrow. You're priceless, Floyd

[Classic Satch]

Originally Posted by starlite9

The State claimed that there are some odd Approx. 25,000 polar bears in the region of Northern Alaska+- (that makes them in the thousands) and that is up from some 5,000 in the 1960's. That was the basis of their lawsuit against the Fed's for putting them wrongly on the Endangered Species list. So I would assume that you believe the Governor is a liar too, since she gets her info from ADF& G.

As far as Caribou, you clearly have no clue to the number of animals that live here in the summer months at all... or much of anything else that has to do with reality for that matter...



Very impressed, a "Long Term Permanent Full Time Resident", how about that, me too, life long for me....



So you are now saying that the Polar Bears are now not endangered and that I am right in my claim... Good for you, you learn very fast! I am impressed!



I can pretty much tell that you don't know the truth if it bit you where the sun don't shine. But that is why I started this Thread, to let people see the difference between someone who is honest about the land and those that claim they know something about the land and you have clearly shown you have no clue.



My mistake it not believing that someone that knows so little of Alaska could claim to live in Barrow, I was wrong and apologized. You do live there and the fact that you have no clue leaves me to wonder what you really do know... other than the cut and paste stuff...



Many years ago I was in Law Enforcement, and you fit the profile of someone that takes other's ideas and makes them your own to impress whom ever. You weren't here in the State at the time from what I am told so you knew none of those in the Polar Bear Mauling at the site, you have to copy the information from some other site to get that much detail. I would pretty much figured that you did just what I claimed, and plagiarism is illegal.



I never thought stealing ideas or stories from others to make me look important was funny, or something I would do.



OOOHHHH, your good, got me on that one... I must have hit that stupid spell checker when I was doing a spell check... It don't know the word "Deadhorse".

The fact that you made it past security once, is not a big deal, like I said earlier, there is a tour bus that can get you though, but you are under their "Care" and restricted to where you can go off the bus.

You really need to get out and get a life.... It is sad to even waste time to respond to your ranting, but it is a bit entertaining to see just how much you don't know, and you keep helping out by responding.

Well-said! I didn't know Barrow was so close to Oz, Floyd's true home. I don't know about you starlite, but Floyd's presumptuous claptrap gets quite tiring after a while. I've never read someone who used so many words to say so little truth. Of course, that's why he's about as popular as a cold sore in these here parts.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

The State claimed that there are some odd Approx. 25,000 polar bears in the region of Northern Alaska+- (that makes them in the thousands) and that is up from some 5,000 in the 1960's. That was the basis of their lawsuit against the Fed's for putting them wrongly on the Endangered Species list. So I would assume that you believe the Governor is a liar too, since she gets her info from ADF& G.

Hilarious. You said there are no polar bears around Barrow, because they all get shot (yet we have them walking through town without being shot) and you said that at Prudhoe there are thousands of them. I call your bluff, and you claim 25,000 bears in Alaska????

In fact the entire Arctic (not Alaska) has a population estimated at 25,000. The Governor and ADF&G are not lying, you are! According to the USGS report there "could be as high as 2,500" in the southern Beaufort Sea. Hence it seems a bit much to claim there are "thousands" at Prudhoe Bay (which would mean that 80% of all polar bears in the Beaufort Sea are at Prudhoe Bay).

Section 8: Polar Bears - Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain Terrestrial Wildlife Research Summaries

Please, a simple apology for you mistaken claims about polar bears.

As far as Caribou, you clearly have no clue to the number of animals that live here in the summer months at all... or much of anything else that has to do with reality for that matter...

2002 Central Arctic Herd Caribou Photocensus Summary

That census counted all of 1437 in the area labeled as "Putuligayuk River". That happens to be Prudhoe Bay. I believe there have been years when the count was higher... 1800 or so animals.

You continue to claim that oil production has no effect on caribou. Yet that effect is extremely well documented.

"After construction of a road system near Milne Point, mean
caribou abundance declined by more than two-thirds within 2 km
from a road and was less than expected, overall, within 4 km;
but nearly doubled 4-6 km from roads (Fig. 4.3) (Cameron et
al. 1992b). Prior to road placement, caribou were found in a
single, more-or-less continuous concentration roughly centered
where the Milne Point Road was subsequently built. After
construction of the road, a bimodal distribution with separate
concentrations east and west of the road was clearly apparent
(Fig. 4.4) (Smith and Cameron 1992), indicating avoidance of
infrastructure by calving caribou."
Section 4: Central Arctic Caribou Herd - Part 1 - Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain Terrestrial Wildlife Research Summaries

"An exponential decline in the occurrence of caribou as density
of roads increased (Fig. 4.6) (Nellemann and Cameron 1998)
underscores the sensitivity of the females during the calving
period. The probable consequence is reduced access to
preferred habitats (Bishop and Cameron 1990, Nellemann and
Cameron 1996, 1998).
Section 4: Central Arctic Caribou Herd - Part 1 - Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain Terrestrial Wildlife Research Summaries

"Incremental redistribution and local habitat loss within the
Kuparuk petroleum development area may have triggered changes
on a regional scale. Wolfe (2000) reported an inland shift in
concentrated calving activity away from the Milne Point
petroleum production unit (Fig. 4.7), apparently in response
to the increasing density of infrastructure."
Section 4: Central Arctic Caribou Herd - Part 1 - Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain Terrestrial Wildlife Research Summaries

"Table 4.1. Parturition status of 43 radio-collared female
cariboua, Central Arctic herd, west and east of the
Sagavanirktok Riverb, Alaska, 1988-1994. West includes the
Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk oil fields; east was generally free of
disturbance during that time. (data from Cameron 1995)"

The table shows 7 years of data and gives the mean parturition
rate west the Sag river as 64.3% and east of it as 82.5%

Section 4: Central Arctic Caribou Herd - Part 2 - Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain Terrestrial Wildlife Research Summaries

Very impressed, a "Long Term Permanent Full Time Resident", how about that, me too, life long for me....

Liar. You are not a resident of the North Slope at all.

So you are now saying

I am now agreeing that you have finally stopped robbing banks and that you no longer take candy from children.

that the Polar Bears are now not endangered

Same as above. I've never done one and you've never done the other. So that makes your statement dishonest unless you are willing to admit to robbing banks and children.

BTW, I know of nobody who is claiming that polar bears are endangered, and no they have not been put on the endangered
species list.

But that is why I started this Thread, to let people see the difference between someone who is honest about the land and those that claim they know something about the land and you have clearly shown you have no clue.

So I quote reliable sources showing that what I've said is true, and you claim to know more than the ADF&G and the USFWS. I guess you have accomplished your goal of letting people see who is honest alright!

You weren't here in the State at the time from what I am told so you knew none of those in the Polar Bear Mauling at the site,

You are once again imagining things. Fabrication isn't going to get you anywhere.

and plagiarism is illegal.

Making up false statements is not smart. If it were true you'd have no problem proving it.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Classic Satch

Well-said! I didn't know Barrow was so close to Oz, Floyd's true home. I don't know about you starlite, but Floyd's presumptuous claptrap gets quite tiring after a while. I've never read someone who used so many words to say so little truth. Of course, that's why he's about as popular as a cold sore in these here parts.

Ain't nobody here lately saying you are priceless! :-)

(Thanks Wrennie!)

[Classic Satch]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Ain't nobody here lately saying you are priceless! :-)

(Thanks Wrennie!)

Oh dear, I don't even know where to go with that one. Lol.

[Rance]

Well if it helps...I've got an 8 foot polar bear hanging on my wall. You can all come over and look at it when ever you want.