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Old 09-03-2008, 11:27 AM
 
3,701 posts, read 5,690,123 times
Reputation: 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkingowl View Post
You know when I was recently in Alaska I ran into all sorts of people. Most of the residents were good, kind people who would buy you a beer or help yank your car out of the ditch just because it was the right thing to do. On the other side of the coin are what I call the ugly Americans. These are the folks that go somewhere on holiday & btch & moan & whine & complain about everything. But specifically they they make rude & condescending comments about where they are & the people that they encounter. They rarely ever meet anyone because their arrogance prevents them from being kind & neighborly. My wife & I cruised 5th Ave in the tourist zone. We talked with a few folks about the weather & such & everyone who was working was kind & friendly. While I was walking through the lobby of Captain Cook on our last day in town there were a lot of tourists either waiting to go to the airport or boarding buses to go to Princess Lodges. There were some teenagers yakking on their cellphones telling the parties on the other end how primitive Alaska was. They were universally unimpressed with what they had been told were cities. According to them Alaskan cities were a joke compared to LA or NYC.
I kept thinking that those little punks have a lot to learn about life in general. I never met anyone who claimed to be " a real Alaskan." You either are or you aren't & no one I met felt the need to state themselves as such.



It becomes harder to forgive ignorance the older that one becomes. Patience seems to be the first virtue to leave. One can only make so many repeated attempts to show someone the right way to do something before you just let them reap what they have sown & let them flounder their way through life. The concept of the "Real Alaskan" is much like the concept of the " True Marbleheader." Marblehead was where I grew up. Its a pretty historic town on the North Shore of Massachusetts. It claims to be the birthplace of the American Navy. But if you weren't born there & you can't trace your lineage back to the Mayflower you will never be accepted by the town elders. Unfortunately for Marblehead its small town charm has been usurped by its proximity to Boston. It is now indistinguishable from any other suburb of Boston, replete with yuppies, BMWs & ignorant behavior. Skyrocketing prices are forcing the "true Marbleheaders" out of Marblehead.

The arrogance of assuming a title tied to a place instead of living life as it comes & treating others with respect & dignity seems to be more & more prevelant these days & that's a shame. Sorry for the rant.
Your 'ugly Americans' are exactly the kind who would come to Kodiak and announce that NOW they are Real Alaskans, but continue to btch, whine, complain, and try to make over whatever place they got into exactly what they'd left behind. But some of them also came for the Adventure of It All, then they'd do the exact same thing, whining, complaining, etc.

As for the ignorance bit, I was specifically referring to how to take proper care of a pet - no one starts out knowing all about it, each and every one is part of an ongoing learning curve, and there are plenty of good books to read and/or people to ask. But the ones who just don't care and don't bother to do anything other than feed it once in awhile, those are hopeless - and unforgivable.

Last edited by karibear; 09-03-2008 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:35 AM
 
11,760 posts, read 17,318,833 times
Reputation: 2639
Quote:
Originally Posted by karibear View Post
But the ones who just don't care and don't bother to do anything other than feed it once in awhile, those are hopeless - and unforgivable.
Well some people just shouldn't own pets, just like they shouldn't reproduce.
When we lived in PA a neighbor of ours would leave his dog out all winter chained to a tree. Sometimes it went below zero & we'd have to call the cops to get this guy to bring his dog in the house. The reason he wouldn't do it voluntarily was because it had fur. Unfortunately he had reproduced copiously as well.
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:51 PM
 
15,558 posts, read 14,656,861 times
Reputation: 6543
Quote:
for the life of me i can't seem to find where starlite has really offended anyone. Am I just totally clueless here? Am I dense or something?
He seems to just shoot straight, and straight from the heart. What's wrong with that?
Nothing at all wrong with speaking from the heart, I suppose, but starlight tends to attempt to push his "truth" on people while misinterpreting their truth, and trying to insult them in the process. After all, he did tell me (and I'm paraphrasing) that Alaska is better off without me, and...

I'm not sure how he gets this from any of my posts, for instance, and this was directed at me:

Quote:
Sorry you are so bitter about not grasping what the Alaska dream is about. Not the cannery workers that come here for college money or the ones that are "Imported" for cheap labor either, the kids that roam the docks looking for a job on the Crab boats to make the big bucks they saw on TV, they are here for the money and leave when it quits.
If an aversion to carpetbaggers makes me bitter in the eyes of someone who doesn't even know me, oh well. I wasn't talking about the kids who want to fish, either.


I don't know any seasonal cannery workers but I have nothing against the young people who come up to work.


The only thing I really have to say about the fishing industry is that I hope that kings hit a new record price next year.
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:04 PM
 
11,760 posts, read 17,318,833 times
Reputation: 2639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
After all, he did tell me (and I'm paraphrasing) that Alaska is better off without me, and...
Well you've been saying for months now that you're better off without Alaska. Perhaps he was just agreeing with you? I haven't been following any of your conversations & can only base my response on your post.
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:12 PM
 
15,558 posts, read 14,656,861 times
Reputation: 6543
And...
Quote:
I work out of Alaska Coastal Towns and have been in or lived in all but some of the really smaller villages of less than a few dozen people. My work takes me to Dutch Harbor to the Southern tip of Southeast Alaska and have been doing so for about three decades working on ships and other jobs. I think I can tell you a lot more about "Port" life than you can even imagine.
FYI, I was specifically referencing what has happened to the SE ports over the last few decades with the influx of the cruise ships and what they have brought with them.



Quote:
Well you've been saying for months now that you're better off without Alaska. Perhaps he was just agreeing with you? I haven't been following any of your conversations & can only base my response on your post.
Where might I have said that Barkely? Somewhere a bit more private than this, perhaps, where any reasons I had for being glad for being gone are highly personal ones that really have little place in this particular conversation and very little to do with the actual north itself?

If you haven't been following any of my conversations, how can you base your response on my post? Makes little senses, sorry.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:07 PM
 
15,558 posts, read 14,656,861 times
Reputation: 6543
Anyway, Barkley, I completely agree with your rant. I understand about Marblehead; I primarily grew up in Tom McCall's Oregon, and I did love that man like a father and I do feel honored that he had a significant part in my childhood. His governorship was largely based on territorialism and I believe he coined the phrase "Keep Oregon Green" which basically meant keeping Californians from moving in. But yet they did just that.

I suppose it's possible to step off a plane and suddenly feel that you belong in a place, but I don't think it's that common of a thing. I think you have to get to know a place like you get to know a lover, through all of the seasons, and the good and the bad. It takes time and investment.

Maybe the only "real Alaskans" are the Natives. Maybe because the whites in Alaska are such relative newcomers that some of them need to define themselves as "real Alaskans".

Kari's comments about the dogs are the perfect metaphor about the Jack London/Robert Service syndrome.

And once again, no one here has faulted Starlite for speaking about what is in his heart. The issue seems to be that he's trying to speak for what is in someone else's heart--mine, it would seem, given some of his posts.

Hell, no one ever held a gun to my head and forced me to spend most of my life there. I could have lived anywhere.

But I'll continue to give myself the best of both worlds, simply because I can.


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Old 09-05-2008, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,272 posts, read 7,377,627 times
Reputation: 3173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
And...

FYI, I was specifically referencing what has happened to the SE ports over the last few decades with the influx of the cruise ships and what they have brought with them.
OK, what is your take on the Cruise Ships in Southeast. They come with thousands of people for a few hours, load people back on and leave for the next town, with a lot of stuff they bought in the towns.

Some people were complaining about them dumping sewage overboard, which is illegal anywhere in State Waters. That is why the State set up the "Ranger" program (Under Governor Palin), where each ship is boarded as they enter Alaskan Waters by a Coast Guard licensed engineer and monitor all ships functions and fines are levied in the event that they don't comply with the "Ranger's" inquiries or do anything that is an infraction of Federal/State law.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:52 AM
 
15,558 posts, read 14,656,861 times
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Let's say you've lived in Skagway most or all of your life. You have a little store. You used to be able to support yourself and your family with your little store. Then more ships came and the carpetbagging jewelry stores followed them like the vultures that they are. These businesses were able and willing to pay huge rents, and you lose your retail space to them.

That little scenario has happened all over the major cruise ship ports in SE. Skagway isn't even a real town anymore.

It's like this characture of what Alaska is supposed to be.
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,272 posts, read 7,377,627 times
Reputation: 3173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Let's say you've lived in Skagway most or all of your life. You have a little store. You used to be able to support yourself and your family with your little store. Then more ships came and the carpetbagging jewelry stores followed them like the vultures that they are. These businesses were able and willing to pay huge rents, and you lose your retail space to them.

That little scenario has happened all over the major cruise ship ports in SE. Skagway isn't even a real town anymore.

It's like this characture of what Alaska is supposed to be.
You have a valid point and that could make someone very bitter about their Alaskan experance.

Skagway was born out of the Gold Rush in the late 1800's and when that ended, then fishing, and now tourist are all that keeps it alive for the most part other than some Government projects and jobs that are scarce too. The Timber Industry has been all but shut down by the tree huggers that supplied good paying jobs all though out Southeast. When the White Pass Rail Road quit hauling mining and then hauled the tourist trade, that killed a lot too. I had friends that were born there and couldn't afford to stay and when their parents died, they sold the property because it was worth too much to keep and live there.

That happens all over Alaska though out it's history, gold towns pop up then fade away. The town of Iditarod had almost 30,000 people there in the first half of the 1900's, now there is a town with nobody in it, except for every other year with the dog sled race passes though it. Lots of dreams were born there and died.

As far as those that go out of business, that isn't new, I went though that years ago and I got over it, you either adapt or die, and I was too young to know that I needed to adapt. Looking back, I could see what I could have done to make things different, but that is like bringing a bilge pump to a sunk boat, too late.

Skagway as a town is still a neat place to be, but real estate is though the roof if you want to buy there as is all over the Southeast and most jobs are seasonal. There is a lot of "Rich" folks that have bought "Summer Cottages" to get away from it all and the locals can't afford to stay there.

I feel for all those that get run out by the mega corps. Here in the Interior it isn't any different, all the Cruise ship lines have their own chain of Hotels, rail cars that the Alaska RR hauls, Bus lines and so forth, they don't let the "tourist" that ride with them see anything that they don't control or let the money out of their loop. The people that work for the lines don't come from Alaska in most cases, can't answer questions that weren't on a card and in about half, don't speak English either.

The people that come on those cruises don't see the local Alaska, they see what you would from a cattle car, shuffled from one event to the other. They could ride the Alaska Ferry System for a fraction of the cost and take their car and stay in each town as long as they wanted between scheduled runs.
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:59 PM
 
3,701 posts, read 5,690,123 times
Reputation: 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
You have a valid point and that could make someone very bitter about their Alaskan experance.

Skagway was born out of the Gold Rush in the late 1800's and when that ended, then fishing, and now tourist are all that keeps it alive for the most part other than some Government projects and jobs that are scarce too. The Timber Industry has been all but shut down by the tree huggers that supplied good paying jobs all though out Southeast. When the White Pass Rail Road quit hauling mining and then hauled the tourist trade, that killed a lot too. I had friends that were born there and couldn't afford to stay and when their parents died, they sold the property because it was worth too much to keep and live there.

That happens all over Alaska though out it's history, gold towns pop up then fade away. The town of Iditarod had almost 30,000 people there in the first half of the 1900's, now there is a town with nobody in it, except for every other year with the dog sled race passes though it. Lots of dreams were born there and died.

As far as those that go out of business, that isn't new, I went though that years ago and I got over it, you either adapt or die, and I was too young to know that I needed to adapt. Looking back, I could see what I could have done to make things different, but that is like bringing a bilge pump to a sunk boat, too late.

Skagway as a town is still a neat place to be, but real estate is though the roof if you want to buy there as is all over the Southeast and most jobs are seasonal. There is a lot of "Rich" folks that have bought "Summer Cottages" to get away from it all and the locals can't afford to stay there.

I feel for all those that get run out by the mega corps. Here in the Interior it isn't any different, all the Cruise ship lines have their own chain of Hotels, rail cars that the Alaska RR hauls, Bus lines and so forth, they don't let the "tourist" that ride with them see anything that they don't control or let the money out of their loop. The people that work for the lines don't come from Alaska in most cases, can't answer questions that weren't on a card and in about half, don't speak English either.

The people that come on those cruises don't see the local Alaska, they see what you would from a cattle car, shuffled from one event to the other. They could ride the Alaska Ferry System for a fraction of the cost and take their car and stay in each town as long as they wanted between scheduled runs.
What's with this obsession you have, thinking that Met is bitter? I haven't seen anything in any of her posts indicating that she's bitter, just saddened by recent changes. I am myself - when it comes to the point where my son tells me not to come back home even to visit because I wouldn't like it anymore, it's got to have changed a lot, and not for the better.

The cruise ships came to Kodiak for awhile too, but fortunately it's far enough off the beaten path - or should I say waterway - that we weren't nearly so inundated. But the ones who came were mostly clueless and rude. Do we take US money? Do I need a p;ssport to go away from the docks? Are you an Alaska Native [to a Filipino girl]? And on and on ad nauseum.
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