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Old 09-07-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Northwestern Illinois
127 posts, read 300,473 times
Reputation: 36

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The yelling was unneccessary and rude.

Here is the quote that I was referring to. I'm placing it here because I have repeatedly been accussed of looking for something that isn't here. These words were clearly posted on this thread. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
but to pray for people simply because they aren't living the traditional conservative lifestyle is a mutation of the Christian religion.
My original question had to do with how praying for someone committing a sin (as defined in the Christian and Jewish bibles) is a mutation of the Christian lifestyle. The Christian lifestyle, by definition, is based on what is in the Christian bible. Christians can't mutate something that is already there.

Sarah Palin is not going to be able to "enact" anything. Neither is John McCain or Barack Obama or Joe Biden. They can sign legislation sent to them by Congress, but cannot enact anything on their own.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Northwestern Illinois
127 posts, read 300,473 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by karibear View Post
You will not get an example, because NO ONE SAID THAT. Please go back and read the original post, slowly and aloud. See if that helps. Concentrate on reading what people have said, rather than what you think they meant. It's called 'reading for content.'
Thank you for the somewhat sarcastic response. I'm not "reading" that into your post, am I? We are going to differ on this whole issue -- which, by the way has nothing to do with the thread title. There is no need for me to continue trying to debate an issue that is a dead one anyway. Sarah Palin will have no effect on legislation in this country. She's running for VP for pete's sake. What does the VP do besides visit the Sunday talk shows and attend diplomatic funerals?
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:09 PM
 
20,026 posts, read 26,140,763 times
Reputation: 12371
Quote:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the conservative lifestyle being a mutation of the Christian lifestyle. You'd have to give me an example on that one.
This was your original "question".

This was your second remark on the subject:

Quote:
I'm still not sure how the conservative lifestyle is a mutation of the Christian lifestyle. I was hoping for an example, but since I'm not going to get one I'll address it as I see it.
As Kari and I have both tried to point out to you, nobody said that the conservative lifestyle is a mutation of anything. Sorry our responses weren't "polite" enough for you, but you have persisted in twisting something that I said when the words are right there in black and white.

Quote:
but to pray for people simply because they aren't living the traditional conservative lifestyle is a mutation of the Christian religion.
So where does it say that the conservative lifestyle is a mutation of the X-tian faith?

And I gave you an example. That example would be Sarah Palin, who is clearly unable to understand the concept of separation of church and state.

Quote:
Sarah Palin is not going to be able to "enact" anything.
I'm talking about what she tried to pull as governor of AK regarding gay rights.

Quote:
Sarah Palin is not going to be able to "enact" anything. Neither is John McCain or Barack Obama or Joe Biden. They can sign legislation sent to them by Congress, but cannot enact anything on their own.
We know that. However, the President and Vice President are still a bit more than figureheads and do have a tremendous impact on policy.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 09-07-2008 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:01 PM
 
3,714 posts, read 8,055,434 times
Reputation: 1402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stropes View Post
Thank you for the somewhat sarcastic response. I'm not "reading" that into your post, am I? We are going to differ on this whole issue -- which, by the way has nothing to do with the thread title. There is no need for me to continue trying to debate an issue that is a dead one anyway. Sarah Palin will have no effect on legislation in this country. She's running for VP for pete's sake. What does the VP do besides visit the Sunday talk shows and attend diplomatic funerals?
Actually, you are misreading what I said. I did not intend to be sarcastic in the least. I have found for myself, that if something seems somewhat off, it helps to go back and re-read out loud. There have been times when I've misinterpreted what was written, due to my own biased view point. "Reading for content" was not a sarcastic comment. The concept has been drummed into me through a lot of years of lit classes and usenet. When one responds to something they think was written as opposed to what was actually written, misunderstandings proliferate exponentially.

Speaking as one who grew up in an ultra-religious household, I have no problem with the 'traditional conservative lifestyle.' It's one of those 'to each his own' things, as far as I'm concerned. What I do have a problem with is the fact that so many of those traditional conservatives are so militant about referring to other, non-traditional lifestyles, as sinful and wrong. The issues of right, wrong, and what constitutes sin are ones that each person must come to terms with for his or her self. There is no one single 'right' blueprint, not even the Bible, and I for one, don't think the Christ of the New Testament would approve of so much busybody-ness.

And it does have to do with the thread title. Many of us have said over and over again that we are not prejudiced against Eskimos and Blacks, and then someone brought up the gay issue in regard to Palin, and what her supposed response was based on her particular religious affiliation. We have been trying to clarify the point that, while she may feel that way [however unlikely since her husband is AK Native, therefor her children are also], she does not speak for all of us. We can and do speak for ourselves.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
6,805 posts, read 11,544,707 times
Reputation: 5418
When I lived in Barrow I experienced reverse discrimination. Usually it was only from people that were drunk but every once in a while you'd get a dose of it from someone that knew what they meant.

And I understood it. If your ancestors lived on the North Slope and some old white geezers showed up and messed it up you got a right to be pissed. I'm sorry it happened. But life is what it is...
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:39 PM
 
3,714 posts, read 8,055,434 times
Reputation: 1402
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
When I lived in Barrow I experienced reverse discrimination. Usually it was only from people that were drunk but every once in a while you'd get a dose of it from someone that knew what they meant.

And I understood it. If your ancestors lived on the North Slope and some old white geezers showed up and messed it up you got a right to be pissed. I'm sorry it happened. But life is what it is...
I've been on the receiving end of reverse discrimination twice. Once when I spent a summer on an Indian reservation in the Lower 48, once when a job I'd been groomed for went to someone else because of the Native Preference clause. And the other Natives working in the same place were highly vocal about how unfair it was, much more than I was. I just quit and let her hang herself out to dry.

On the other hand, I was also once fired from a job in the midwest because I was friends with a Black employee.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,362,766 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
When I lived in Barrow I experienced reverse discrimination. Usually it was only from people that were drunk but every once in a while you'd get a dose of it from someone that knew what they meant.
That's fairly easy to find here... just talk to anyone who is 60-65 or older. Racism is fairly rare amongst the younger generations, but the old folks were almost all raised with it.

Of course when you were here, they weren't so old either, and many of them were still very much in control of everything here!

Quote:
And I understood it. If your ancestors lived on the North Slope and some old white geezers showed up and messed it up you got a right to be pissed. I'm sorry it happened. But life is what it is...
It wasn't "old white geezers showed up and messed it up". They actually got along pretty well... as you'll notice from the predominance of old white geezer names in Barrow: Leavitt, Brower, Adams, Olemaun, Hopson etc! :-)

But missionaries and BIA school teachers are the ones who worked to destroy the culture and to hurt individuals. Things like spanking children in school if they used the Inupiaq language, and telling/treating them they weren't as good as Whites.

That was still going on here well into the 1960's. Anyone who'd graduated from school by then was permanently skewed.

Today racism in Barrow is relatively invisible. Not that it doesn't exist, but it doesn't affect daily life much. But people who come here do need to realize that White Preference doesn't exist here and in fact it's the other way around. Anyone who expects to be given the usual, will find it is somebody else who quietly gets moved to the front of the line, and that they are part of those "scum of the earth" that don't get such consideration.

It is in fact a very good education for people who think racism isn't important elsewhere and isn't really harming those with non-white skin.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:49 PM
 
3,714 posts, read 8,055,434 times
Reputation: 1402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
... But people who come here do need to realize that White Preference doesn't exist here and in fact it's the other way around. Anyone who expects to be given the usual, will find it is somebody else who quietly gets moved to the front of the line, and that they are part of those "scum of the earth" that don't get such consideration.

It is in fact a very good education for people who think racism isn't important elsewhere and isn't really harming those with non-white skin.
In my particular situation, Native preference was given, all other things being equal. The person who got the job I'd been groomed for was a fresh college grad who'd never even held a real job - just a couple of part time clerk-type things in drug stores. She pretty much single-handedly destroyed a program that had been a national model.
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
6,805 posts, read 11,544,707 times
Reputation: 5418
When I was there all of the police officers were white. We were paid less than the honey bucket truck drivers and the garbage men. Oh well. Crying about it didn't seem to be the appropriate thing to do. I enjoyed my time there.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,362,766 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by karibear View Post
In my particular situation, Native preference was given, all other things being equal. The person who got the job I'd been groomed for was a fresh college grad who'd never even held a real job - just a couple of part time clerk-type things in drug stores. She pretty much single-handedly destroyed a program that had been a national model.
The job was on an Indian reservation and the young lady you reference was a member of that particular tribe? She got the job, so you quit and left?

That demonstates why she was the right choice for the job. She has a stake that is bigger and more tightly bound to the welfare of the tribe. It may take her awhile to get it right, but she won't leave and allow the lack of her knowledge to hurt others. (Or at least that is the potential that she brings, and you didn't.)

They may indeed have lost one program, and maybe others too. But in the long run, she'll be a better strategic choice.

That is not a concept that will likely make you happy. But I've seen that operate in two areas that are of really great significance. One is education, where all the teachers come from a different culture. The other is law, where non tribal member lawyers simply lack dedication to getting the law correct, as opposed to providing a service because they are paid to file motions whether they win a case or not.

I am a huge advocate of training young Native people as teachers and lawyers. In particular the University of New Mexico's Pre-Law Summer Institute is one of the most productive in the country, simply because it produces a couple dozen more Native lawyers every year! Oddly, it is a program that has also resulted in UNM's Indian Law program being consistently rated as the top Indian Law school in the country. Indian lawyers are good at Indian Law!
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