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Old 09-21-2008, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hunkering down atop Mt Shasta
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Yeah, they actually had an RCMP outpost on the border, weighing everyone's stuff!
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:29 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SE Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Only after some of them starved to death during the first part of the rush. And it was the Canadian government that made the requirement that they bring supplies. And I believe it was 2000 pounds rather than 1000.
correct, it was 2000 lbs. I believe inventory was taken at White Pass.
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:38 PM
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Location: Barrow, Alaska
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
How on earth did you jump from this passage to the notion that they had no experience with guns? Lol.
The claim was made that they had to have had experience because they were all required to be join the militia. That is nonsense, as I've demontrated with irrefutable cites.
Quote:
But the page you linked to earlier didn't bear that out, did it? As I pointed out, and you were unable to refute.
That you read the cited documents and cannot absorb what they say speaks a great deal towards your unsubstantiated opinions expressed here. Your claim that the link did not demonstrate what I said (even though I'd quoted the part the demonstated it) is hilarious and it didn't require any further comment from me!
Quote:
I THOUGHT your outrageous ideas may have come mainly from Bellesiles! Missed that post of mine about him, did you? Or just couldn't handle it?
Wrong on all counts, again.

But regardless of that, Bellesiles provided a great deal of very good research. The NRA crucified him because there were errors about probate documents in three paragraphs and one table of the book, but nobody has been able to discredit the vast majority of "Arming America". In particular no one has even attempted to discredit his second edition published in 2003.
Quote:
Apparently he had no compunction whatsoever about making up his own "facts" when the real ones proved inconvenient!
That is a made up fact! There were typical errors in his research, as there is in any research of that scale. The errors were not even significant to his conclusions...
Quote:
Depends what you mean by "many" or "few". Read about the Klondike Gold Rush sometime. Everyone was required to pack 1000 lbs of supplies to get into Canada.
A non-sequitur. That applies to one trail, to one location, at one time in history. They were not explorers either, the were followers going where the crowds were.

It has nothing at all to do with people exploring the land, who are the ones that your previous claim was directed at, and which was simply in accurate.
Quote:
Yes, everything was done with backbreaking labor, they had no sawmills etc.
They had sawmills.
Quote:
They did have dredges in the Yukon and Alaska, *****xes, two-man saws, hammers, axes, cast iron cooking pots and skillets, etc.
They had a lot of stuff later, but it was not carried in by mule and dogsled with the explorers. After the explorers came, the riverboats hauled freight up the rivers.

The military brought in a great deal of freight too, and surplused hugh amounts of supplies at St. Michaels too. They paid a number of men to haul it all out on the ice to be dumped... and those men virtually all headed up the river to establish various trading posts that are commonly still owned by their descendants today!
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:55 PM
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Location: Barrow, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
correct, it was 2000 lbs. I believe inventory was taken at White Pass.
White Pass is one trail, Chilkoot is another. Either way, Canada required 2000 pounds of supplies for entry.

The checkpoints were at each summit. Both trails lead to Lake Bennett, where they had to wait for spring breakup to continue the journey.

Farther down the route, at the White Horse Rapids on the Yukon River, another Canadian checkpoint was set up to inspect boats and determine that each was not only able to make the trip through the rapids but also to determine that each had a competent pilot capable of that task.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:11 AM
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If you want to read a story about some real Alaskan sourdoughs the web site about Elmer Keturi will keep you spell bound. He got off of the train in Nenana in February and walked the trail out to Flat, 400 miles, to get to his first job in Alaska. Then in the fall when mining season was over he pulled his rucksack on and walked back out.

Trails And Tailings
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:46 AM
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Location: Vt but soon to be AK
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arctichomesteader has a brilliant future
arctichomesteader has a brilliant future
Floyd, that entire book has been discredited, even by flaming liberals (one of my leftist professors in college even used it as an example of what not to do, and he was anti-gun lol). The author fabricated evidence that didn't exist (for example, probate records from San Francisco, all of which burned in 1906 and don't exist). He mentioned VT probate records saying repeatedly that guns were old or damaged or non-working, which in fact, they did not. That book lacks any credibility. Even some of the various awards he was given were taken back from him, and the publisher refused to reprint the book because of its problems.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:48 AM
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arctichomesteader has a brilliant future
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Quote:
They had sawmills.
In more settled areas. The average person on a remote homestead, no. Many of the surviving pioneer cabins I've seen, had split boards (split with a froe by hand) as opposed to sawn boards. Pretty labor intensive and slow work but it got the job done, and split boards are a bit stronger than sawn boards too.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
In more settled areas. The average person on a remote homestead, no. Many of the surviving pioneer cabins I've seen, had split boards (split with a froe by hand) as opposed to sawn boards. Pretty labor intensive and slow work but it got the job done, and split boards are a bit stronger than sawn boards too.
Danged near all of them had a sawmill! You just don't realize that to have a sawmill all it takes is one two man whipsaw (one man can use it alone though, but...).

The rest of the "sawmill" is made of logs and dirt.

Of course most people didn't want to whipsaw planks for floorboards! Why too much work for too little results. Same with roofing. If you think split logs are labor intensive, just whip out a few planks!
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:44 AM
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arctichomesteader has a brilliant future
arctichomesteader has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
Danged near all of them had a sawmill! You just don't realize that to have a sawmill all it takes is one two man whipsaw (one man can use it alone though, but...).

The rest of the "sawmill" is made of logs and dirt.

Of course most people didn't want to whipsaw planks for floorboards! Why too much work for too little results. Same with roofing. If you think split logs are labor intensive, just whip out a few planks!
Most people wouldn't do the pit method of cutting boards.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:10 AM
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Location: Interior alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
Danged near all of them had a sawmill! You just don't realize that to have a sawmill all it takes is one two man whipsaw (one man can use it alone though, but...).

The rest of the "sawmill" is made of logs and dirt.

Of course most people didn't want to whipsaw planks for floorboards! Why too much work for too little results. Same with roofing. If you think split logs are labor intensive, just whip out a few planks!

A one or two man whipsaw or a guy with a gas chainsaw is not a "Saw Mill", just because they cut lumber doesn't mean they were a "Mill". "Mills" were powered by horses, water, steam, gas and electricity. A lot of the Amish on the Eastern State use whip saws in building, but they aren't called "Sawmills".

Here, this may help you out....

Sawmill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History

The earliest known reference to a working sawmill comes from a Roman poet, Ausonius who wrote an epic poem about the river Moselle in Germany in the 4th century AD. At one point in the poem he describes the shrieking sound of a watermill cutting marble. It is likely that different kinds of watermills were well used in the Roman period from references given by Vitruvius in 25 BC and Pliny the Elder in 77 AD.
By the 11th century, hydropowered sawmills were in widespread use throughout the medieval Islamic world, from Islamic Spain and North Africa in the west to Central Asia in the east.[2] Sawmills eventually became widespread in medieval Europe as well, as one was sketched by Villard de Honnecourt in c. 1250.[3] They are claimed to have been introduced to Madeira following its discovery in c. 1420 and spread widely in Europe in the 16th century.[4]
The sawmill was also described by the Dutchman Cornelis Corneliszoon (1550-1607) by applying a pitman arm onto a wind mill, which converted a turning motion into an up-an-down motion. Corneliszoon patented the sawmill on December 15, 1593 and the pitman on December 6, 1597. He built the first sawmill there in 1594.
Prior to the invention of the sawmill, boards were rived and planed, or more often sawn by two men with a whipsaw, using saddleblocks to hold the log, and a saw pit for the pitman who worked below. Sawing was slow, and required strong and enduring men. The topsawer had to be the stronger of the two because the saw was pulled in turn by each man, and the lower had the advantage of gravity. The topsawyer also had to guide the saw so that the board was of even thickness. This was often done by following a chalkline.
Early sawmills simply adapted the whipsaw to mechanical power, generally driven by a water wheel to speed up the process. The circular motion of the wheel was changed to back-and-forth motion of the saw blade by a Connecting rod known as a pitman (thus introducing a term used in many mechanical applications). A pitman is similar to a crankshaft, but in reverse; a crankshaft converts back-and-forth motion to circular motion.
Generally, only the saw was powered, and the logs had to be loaded and moved by hand. An early improvement was the development of a movable carriage, also water powered, to move the log steadily through the saw blade.
A small mill such as this would be the center of many rural communities in wood-exporting regions such as the Baltic countries and Canada. The output of such mills would be quite low, perhaps only 500 boards per day. They would also generally only operate during the winter, the peak logging season.
In the United States, the sawmill was introduced soon after the colonisation of Virginia by recruiting skilled men from Hamburg. Later the metal parts were obtained from the Netherlands,[5] where the technology was far ahead of that in England, where the sawmill remained largely unknown until the late 18th century. The arrival of a sawmill was a large and stimulative step in the growth of a frontier community.
Early mills were taken to the forest, where a temporary shelter was built, and the logs were skidded to the nearby mill by horse or ox teams, often when there was some snow to provide lubrication. As mills grew larger, they were usually established in more permanent facilities on a river, and the logs were floated down to them by log drivers.
The next improvement was the use of circular saw blades, and soon thereafter, the use of gangsaws, which added additional blades so that a log would be reduced to boards in one quick step. Circular saw blades were extremely expensive and highly subject to damage by overheating or dirty logs. A new kind of technician arose, the sawfiler. Sawfilers were highly skilled in metalworking. Their main job was to set and sharpen teeth. The craft also involved learning how to hammer a saw, whereby a saw is deformed with a hammer and anvil to counteract the forces of heat and cutting. The circular saw was a later introduction, perhaps invented in England in the late 18th century, but perhaps in 17th century Holland, Netherlands. Modern circular saw blades have replaceable teeth, but still need to be hammered.[6]
The introduction of steam power in the 19th century created many new possibilities for mills. They could be built away from water and could be far more mechanized. Scrap lumber from the mill provided a ready fuel source for firing the boiler. Efficiency was increased, but the capital cost of a new mill increased dramatically as well.
By 1900, the largest sawmill in the world was operated by the Atlantic Lumber Company in Georgetown, South Carolina, using logs floated down the Pee Dee River from as far as the edge of the Appalachian Mountains in North Carolina.
A restoration project for Sturgeon's Mill in Northern California is underway, restoring one of the last steam-powered lumber mills still using its original equipment.
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