Just out of friendly curiousity... (law, garden, ice cream)

[akck]

From Wikipedia:

Treason

.....

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

.....

At times, the term "traitor" has been levelled as a political epithet, regardless of any verifiable treasonable action. In a civil war or insurrection, the winners may deem the losers to be traitors. Likewise the term "traitor" is used in heated political discussion – typically as a slur against political dissidents, or against officials in power who are perceived as failing to act in the best interest of their constituents. In certain cases, as with the German Dolchstoßlegende, the accusation of treason towards a large group of people can be a unifying political message.

.....

I know, Wikipedia is not the best source.

JavaPhil's person falls under the legal definition and notreesininceland would be more of the political definition. Prosecuting mal's person should have been relatively easy, but politics came into play.

[Floyd_Davidson]

If more Americans had had the courage and the moral fiber that Jane Fonda displayed it is fact that thousands of dead and wounded Americans would not have been, and probably millions of Vietnamese.

The rest of us were shamed. (And clearly many still are.)

[notreesininceland]

Mal, you misunderstand. I did not wish to make light of your contempt for Jane Fonda. What I was driving home is this: in the larger scheme of things she was very minor. I provided you a recent act of treason that, in my view, should exercise you more than flogging the old Fonda horse.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by notreesininceland

Mal, you misunderstand. I did not wish to make light of your contempt for Jane Fonda. What I was driving home is this: in the larger scheme of things she was very minor. I provided you a recent act of treason that, in my view, should exercise you more than flogging the old Fonda horse.

However... technically what Fonda did probably was treason, or at a minimum that can be argued reasonably; while what Bush did technically is not, simply because we elected him to lead. You of course are not talking about what is practical in reality.

Instead you have the audacity to try injecting morality into an argument with people who espouse an ideology to the exclusion of all else.

[notreesininceland]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

However... technically what Fonda did probably was treason, or at a minimum that can be argued reasonably; while what Bush did technically is not, simply because we elected him to lead. You of course are not talking about what is practical in reality.

Instead you have the audacity to try injecting morality into an argument with people who espouse an ideology to the exclusion of all else.

Guilty as charged.

What Bush did is tantamount to treason (among other things).

[quakinator]

Gotta love when liberals throw "Morality" into the equation....

Both sides decide for themselves what is moral and immoral, I believe killing unborn humans is immoral aside from rape, incest or life threatening condition to the mother.

You can't base your argument on morality when everyone's view of morality is different and expect anyone to all of a sudden espouse your "ideology."

[JavaPhil]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

If more Americans had had the courage and the moral fiber that Jane Fonda displayed it is fact that thousands of dead and wounded Americans would not have been, and probably millions of Vietnamese.

The rest of us were shamed. (And clearly many still are.)

And on that note Floyd, I will concede you have your opinion and I have mine.

But moral fiber would not have labelled the returning POWS from Hanoi as "Hypocrites and liars" after the war was over. I just pulled that line out of my overactive imagination.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by JavaPhil

And on that note Floyd, I will concede you have your opinion and I have mine.

But moral fiber would not have labelled the returning POWS from Hanoi as "Hypocrites and liars" after the war was over. I just pulled that line out of my overactive imagination.

Some were. I don't off hand recall Fonda saying that, nor do I care one way or another if she did or didn't.

The point was that what she did to help stop the killing was the right thing to do. It saved lives. I am embarassed that I didn't try to do as much as Fonda did.

I am astounded that all these decades later there are people who still don't have a clue though!

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by quakinator

Gotta love when liberals throw "Morality" into the equation....

Somebody has to, and it sure isn't going to be you... :-)

You can't base your argument on morality when everyone's view of morality is different and expect anyone to all of a sudden espouse your "ideology."

Ah yes, trying to obfuscate the issue by changing the subject to an issue where what is or isn't moral is open to debate. But in this case there need not be much disagreement, simply because there was never any moral reason to engage in the years we spent killing millions of Vietnamese people, not to mention that there was no morality in sacrificing the lives of tens of thousands of young Americans who thought they were "doing their duty".

Or do you really want to try claiming some part of that was on even an island of moral grounds???

[quakinator]

I was referring to the comments about Bush lying us into a war and him being characterized at treasonous not about the Vietnam war. Sorry for the confusion.

Some view Saddam Hussein as an evil dictator and regardless of the outcome of the search for WMD's there were justifications for war.

I know most liberal media won't even report the fact that the Iraq War is essentially won, I'm not saying it was pretty or that it was well managed, because it wasn't. I do believe though that the Iraqi people as a whole will be better off tomorrow than they were yesterday.