So Much For Global Warming...

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Meanwhile the Yukon and other major river ice was much thicker than normal this last few years and caused excessive flooding from increasing ice dams being formed with the addition of more than normal snow falls melting...

Guess we found where the cold weather was hiding....

I doubt that the river ice was "much thicker than normal this last few years". Even if it was, it doesn't mean what you seem to imply.

Consider that in colder years there might be... less snow. Less snow means the ice melts faster in the spring and the water surge that breaks up the ice comes later, allowing more ice to melt.

River flooding in Alaska is a complex and does not lend itself to simple minded analysis.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by JohnPF

Sorry to spoil your "feel good" party... I think what's not readily visible plays bigger role in global warming than the fluctuctions we see year to year:

The Catlin Arctic Survey, a gruelling 10-week expedition to measure the thickness of sea ice, has ended.
At 1750 BST on Wednesday, two planes landed safely on the floating Arctic ice to collect Pen Hadow, Ann Daniels and Martin Hartley.
Their data will help study the impacts of global warming in the region.
It also reinforces a new forecast, by a leading UK scientist, who says that the Arctic sea ice could vanish in summertime far sooner than predicted.
The Catlin survey ended slightly ahead of schedule to ensure a safe pick up.



Arctic diary: Explorers' ice quest

Speaking on a live link from the Arctic landing strip, Mr Hadow said that it had been a difficult but successful expedition.
"In our time here we have captured around 16,000 observations and [taken] 1,500 measurements of the thickness of the ice and snow as well as its density," he said.
He added that his team was now handing its valuable data, collected primarily through drilling following the failure of a mobile radar unit, over to the scientists.
"[The data] seems to suggest it was almost all first-year ice," Mr Hadow said.
He revealed that over the length of the survey the average thickness of the sea ice was 1.774m.
"Our science advisors had told us to expect thicker, older ice on at least part of the route, so it is something of a mystery where that older ice has gone. It'll be interesting to see what scientists think about this."

It would seem to me that if someone was to pay me for my time to prove something that they themselves have an angle to make money on, it would be in most "explorers" to find the data that they want... just ignore some of the small stuff that conflicts with it....

Was in a hotel in Seward this last week, they have a card in the rooms to make you think that by reusing your towels instead of throwing them on the floor to get replaced, will save the worlds resources... Not to mention that the Hotel still charges the same amount for the room and don't have to pay to wash the towels that day...

If they were serious, they would have given a bit of a discount for being "Environmentally concerned"... but they don't.

Follow the money....

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

I doubt that the river ice was "much thicker than normal this last few years". Even if it was, it doesn't mean what you seem to imply.

Consider that in colder years there might be... less snow. Less snow means the ice melts faster in the spring and the water surge that breaks up the ice comes later, allowing more ice to melt.

River flooding in Alaska is a complex and does not lend itself to simple minded analysis.

Either does the fact that stuff refreezes in the winter beyond mankind's control.

Global Warming has now become Climate Change to cover all bases since the warming doesn't seem to be coming along as planned...

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

I doubt that the river ice was "much thicker than normal this last few years". Even if it was, it doesn't mean what you seem to imply.

Consider that in colder years there might be... less snow. Less snow means the ice melts faster in the spring and the water surge that breaks up the ice comes later, allowing more ice to melt.

River flooding in Alaska is a complex and does not lend itself to simple minded analysis.

Here, you like to look at Internet data...

http://www.nenanaakiceclassic.com/Ice%20Measurement.htm

The Nenana Ice Classic has been going on since about 1917 or so and has been taking ice thickness measurements since then. Let me know if you can find a trend..

Then go up to Eagle and tell the folks with ice cubes as big as their house sitting where their house use to be that the ice is getting smaller...

[PacificIsle]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

Sounds like great news It will open new sea routes.

New sea routes...indeed !! As well, new feuds are popping up amongst countries:

USA, Russia, Canada, Denmark, Norway & the Arctic

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Here, you like to look at Internet data...

http://www.nenanaakiceclassic.com/Ice%20Measurement.htm

The Nenana Ice Classic has been going on since about 1917 or so and has been taking ice thickness measurements since then. Let me know if you can find a trend..

The data you cite does not support your claim. Did you bother to actually look at it?

Then go up to Eagle and tell the folks with ice cubes as big as their house sitting where their house use to be that the ice is getting smaller...

As I noted, simple minded analysis won't get it.

Other places did not have their worst case flood this year. Other years have had worst case floods in other places.

You cannot use a single data point to graph a trend.

[starlite9]

[quote=Floyd_Davidson;8861464]The data you cite does not support your claim. Did you bother to actually look at it?As I noted, simple minded analysis won't get it.

Other places did not have their worst case flood this year. Other years have had worst case floods in other places.

You cannot use a single data point to graph a trend.[/quote]

No, I could not use a single or a lot of data points to even put a glimer of fact into your life... The world is going to do what it will do with or without us on the planet. Ice ages have come and gone before man and will do so again and again after we are gone.

Where you are currently living was once a tropical place that has long since turned Arctic, and the swamps that were there millions of years ago are now oil and gas fields... Who's fault was that?

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Who's fault was that?

Yours.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by Barkingowl

10 May 09 – This past week, climatologist Cliff Harris of the Coeur d’Alene Press received an astounding report from Yakutat, Alaska, concerning the Hubbard Glacier. The glacier is advancing toward Gilbert Point near Yakutat at the astonishing rate of two meters (seven feet) per day!

Hubbard Glacier - CRREL Monitoring

You mean ice melts in the Summer??? OH MY GAWD!!!! Who would have thought that was possible?!?!?!?!? WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by Glitch

You mean ice melts in the Summer??? OH MY GAWD!!!! Who would have thought that was possible?!?!?!?!? WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

Die from rolling on the floor laughing.

The glacier is growing and advancing, not melting and receding.