Juneau (Juneau and: environment, relocating, hoa)

[Paula Lynn]

Tell me about Juneau. My son is thinking of relocating .......

[Rance]

Heres some info from rough alaskan girl:

I have lived in Juneau for 32 years, let's see.... You can grow carrots, sweet peas, cherry trees, I have seen some apple trees, don't know how well they do here, waxed beans, strawberries, blueberries grow wild here, I don't have the green thumb so I don't know very much about the growing thing but there's some for starters. We don't have state tax (5%) Ok let's put it this way....I don't go down town during tourist season it's a nightmare! But that's one of the major incomes for Juneau is the tourists, during a tourist season we can triple our population about 8 to 10 times during that time. I like most of the schools here, we are going to get a new high school in 2008 which will be nice. I have a 13 year old that goes to school here and most of the schools her has gone to I have gone to. Herbs will most likely have to be grow in the house, I know that pepermint can be grown outside but I don't know about any thing else. It's very beautiful here, I love it, but again this is the only thing that I have know so I hope to be moving and spreading my wings next year. I have made my history here. The organ in the State Office Building 2 generations has tuned, when Juneau was first beginning my family brought in most of the wood to build the old houses, the first bridge that was put in to connect Juneau and Douglas I have my hand prints on the inside of that and also the bridge that is there today, my dad pumped the State Office Building, the Fred Meyers and most of the houses. It's time to move on and let others enjoy it the way I have. I hope this helps. There are many trails out at the Mendenhall Glacier take your family and go hiking all the wonderful bird songs and wildlife there during the summer is to die for.... just watch for bears and avoid them. I hope you see what I see in Juneau and embrace the wildlife like so many have.

From cobalt:

Juneau is wonderful. The hiking is incredible---just be bear saavy. You have the necessities but there is a small town feel. There isn't the material pretense you will find in the lower 48 and you really get to know your neighbors. I favor the "bedroom communities" around Auke Bay, Auke Lake. Yes, stay away from downtown during tourist season. You'll be able to get enough of what you need elsewhere anyway. Air traffic (helos, float planes, etc) gets a bit busy and annoying during tourist season/ summer---May ish to Sept--but it's a small price to pay in order to live in such close proximity to natural paradise. Enjoy it!!

From Alaskagrl:

Don't want to discourage you but...hope you already have a job lined up, unless money is no object for you! Juneau is REAL expensive, both to live in and rent in. I was looking at transferring up there, and even on a pretty decent salary I could not find a place to rent that wouldn't pretty much break me! Although...if you know anyone there, you might be in good shape. Good luck!

From Xa'at:

It's true, cost of living is higher, but so are salaries, generally. I don't think getting a job in the banking sect would be terribly hard, there are quite a few banks here. As for housing, I'd stick with something in the valley, it tends to be quite a bit cheaper out there, although it isn't quite as scenic. At least you've got the glacier!
The other place you might consider looking is way out the road. The views are nice and places tend to be cheaper, but you'll definitely need a 4WD car to get out there! That's why so many people have (very dirty) subarus around here!

A link to the local newspaper (thanks Rainy):http://www.juneauempire.com/

Also: www.juneaualaska.com

[Paula Lynn]

Thanks. Appreciate it

[Western Man]

Here's another Juneau question:

What are the trees like in Juneau? Most of the photos I've seen show evergreens — are there (m)any deciduous trees there?

[Rainy]

There are trees in Juneau? Damn, the loggers must be slacking. I live south of there and it seems we have very few trees anymore.

Southeast Alaska is definitely evergreen country though a small number of deciduous trees do grow here. Are you talking about what is native to the region or about what can feasibly be cultivated here?

Alder and cottonwood are native to the region with birch in just a few areas.

[Western Man]

Originally Posted by Rainy

There are trees in Juneau? Damn, the loggers must be slacking. I live south of there and it seems we have very few trees anymore.

I'm not quite certain how to take this. It's clear you're meaning this a bit facetiously, but it's difficult to judge how much of what you're saying here is serious. Also, I'm not clear on what you mean by "very few trees". I've lived in some places where there's horizon-to-horizon evergreen forest — that's a lot of trees by anyone's standard. I've lived in other places where there's horizon-to-horizon desert, and rocks, and dry lake bed — that's very few trees by anyone's standard. I'm used to thinking of trees as something that humans add to the landscape rather than something we take away from it. But everywhere I've been where the natural default is forested always seems to have more trees than anywhere where trees only grow when people plant them. So I really have no idea what you mean when you say there are very few trees anymore.

Southeast Alaska is definitely evergreen country though a small number of deciduous trees do grow here. Are you talking about what is native to the region or about what can feasibly be cultivated here?

Neither, actually. I was asking about what trees are currently growing in Juneau and the surrounding area. I wasn't concerned about whether they were native or whether they were imported, nor whether they were growing wild or had been cultivated. At the same time, I also wasn't asking about what I myself could grow. I just wanted to know what's there now, regardless of how it got there.

Alder and cottonwood are native to the region with birch in just a few areas.

Does this mean there's still alder, cottonwood, and some birch growing wild in the Juneau area?

[Rance]

There are exactly 3,587 trees growing in Juneau, consisting of alder, birch, spruce, and a couple lilac's.

[Rainy]

I can show you photographs of the clearcuts here and then you tell me where all the trees are that are supposedly replaced after logging operations.

But everywhere I've been where the natural default is forested always seems to have more trees than anywhere where trees only grow when people plant them. So I really have no idea what you mean when you say there are very few trees anymore.

The questions you asked were specific to the Tongass National Rain Forest and not to "everywhere else you've been" and that is how I answered them. The logging here is truly having a devastating effect on the land.

Neither, actually. I was asking about what trees are currently growing in Juneau and the surrounding area.

Well, I tried to answer your question; I suppose the botanist in me would wonder if you were asking about native plants or cultivated ones. You did, though, ask about deciduous trees.

Good luck finding your answers. Perhaps try Google next time instead of sneering at someone who takes the time to answer your question. Perhaps one of the local nurseries in Juneau could be of assistance to you.

[Western Man]

Originally Posted by Rainy

Perhaps try Google next time instead of sneering at someone who takes the time to answer your question.

Whoa! Calm down a notch or five! I wasn't sneering at all.

You said about the trees somewhere south of Juneau that there were "very few anymore". That really doesn't tell me much more than that you personally judge the number now as being substantially reduced from your perceptions of earlier times. It's hard to compare that to any kind of standard beyond earlier times in Alaska. Since I've never been to Alaska (as I imagine is the case with most people on this forum asking questions about Alaska), comparing present-day Alaska to an earlier Alaska does nothing to clarify the situation for me.

I tried to explain to you through the example of my own quite varied experience that our subjective standards vary on matters of "fewness" of trees, and that I therefore needed a more objective standard for any such statement to have meaning for me.

I don't see how that can possibly be construed as sneering.

Originally Posted by Rainy

I can show you photographs of the clearcuts here and then you tell me where all the trees are that are supposedly replaced after logging operations.

I wasn't asking in the least to enter a debate on the sustainability of logging as an industry or the effects of that industry on the environment. I was just asking about whether there were deciduous trees in Juneau in addition to the many evergreens I have seen in photographs.

Originally Posted by Rainy

The questions you asked were specific to the Tongass National Rain Forest and not to "everywhere else you've been" and that is how I answered them. The logging here is truly having a devastating effect on the land.

No, actually, they weren't specific to the Tongass National Rain Forest. They were specific to the city of Juneau. So answers related to the Tongass National Rain Forest don't really do a lot to help me. Furthermore, my question was about what the trees were like there (specifically whether there were deciduous trees there), not whether there were trees there. I have seen photographs showing trees in Juneau, so I'm pretty sure there are trees there. So you didn't answer my question at all, really.

I'm sorry that you feel logging is having a truly devastating effect on the land. But that really doesn't have anything to do with my question, as I'm sure you will see if you go back and read it again.

Originally Posted by Rainy

Well, I tried to answer your question; I suppose the botanist in me would wonder if you were asking about native plants or cultivated ones. You did, though, ask about deciduous trees.

I did ask about deciduous trees in Juneau. I didn't ask about native trees. I didn't ask about introduced trees. I didn't ask about wild trees. I didn't ask about cultivated trees. I just asked about deciduous trees. In Juneau.

You assumed I was asking something that I didn't ask and then gave me a somewhat facetious response about a topic quite unrelated even to what you had assumed I was asking (namely, the effects of logging in the Tongass National Rain Forest). Then, when I told you that your answer wasn't quite what I had been asking about, you felt like you should chastise me for sneering at you. I'm sorry: I refuse to accept your chastisement, which I think is quite misplaced.

I never sneered at you or mistreated you in any way. And I have done nothing to deserve the kind of treatment you have given me. All I said was that I didn't fully understand your statements and that you hadn't quite answered the question I had been asking.

Originally Posted by Rainy

Good luck finding your answers.

I had rather hoped that finding the answers would be trivially easy on a forum like this. I figured someone in Juneau could take a look at the trees in town next time he was out and see whether there were any deciduous trees, and if so, whether there were enough that he didn't really even want to take the time to count them.

If someone found a situation like that, I had hoped he might respond and say something like, "Yeah, there are quite a few deciduous trees around town." Or if he found none or few enough that he could count them quite easily (less then ten or so, say), then he might say something like, "No, there aren't really any deciduous trees around town. Maybe a couple here and there, but that's about it."

I figured anyone who had lived in Juneau during fall, when deciduous trees make their presence known quite delightfully, would be able to answer the question in a snap. He'd either remember leaves in town turning color or he wouldn't. And he could answer based on that.

Perhaps there's no one on this forum from Juneau or who spends any significant amount of time there (like weekly or monthly shopping trips).

But one thing is certain, I never dreamt my question about whether there are deciduous trees in Juneau would incite furor over logging in the Tongass National Rain Forest. I live in Provo, Utah. It would never occur to me that someone asking about whether there were deciduous trees in Provo might really be asking about the effects of logging in the Uinta National Forest.

Originally Posted by Rainy

Perhaps one of the local nurseries in Juneau could be of assistance to you.

That's a good idea. Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by Rance

There are exactly 3,587 trees growing in Juneau, consisting of alder, birch, spruce, and a couple lilac's.

Wow! That's an incredibly exact figure! Where did you get that?

So it sounds like there are plenty of deciduous trees there if alders, birches, and spruces are all in kind of (roughly) equal proportions or so.

[Rance]

Well actually I was just pulling your leg! I'm sure there are more than that. Really no one from Juneau here yet.
I landed there once back in 1979 or 80...but never really paid any attention to the trees. I'm sure it has changed around town since then.