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Old 07-01-2009, 02:13 AM
 
4,986 posts, read 8,326,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
That it is an "error" is a presumption on your part which you use to justify your conclusion. This is known in the trade as circular reasoning.
That's only because you see it as presumption, whereas I see it deduction based on past history. One of those glass half full/empty kinda things. Now, if that glass was half full of Pinot...
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 1,862,135 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
That's only because you see it as presumption, whereas I see it deduction based on past history. One of those glass half full/empty kinda things. Now, if that glass was half full of Pinot...
Gee, that's cute Moose. Why bother establishing anything in a discussion when you can simply label it solved and resolved.
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 1,862,135 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaPhil View Post
And 10 years from now, when the fallout of whatever is going on now is finally tallied, if Obama comes off as a real statesman, a follower of realpolitik on the world stage, and a financier extraordinaire, I will say, "Yes, you all were right." Until then, we'll just wait and see.
As the cliche goes, there are no guarantees in life. We, who have reposed provisional trust in Obama's vision and ability, are also in a wait-and-watch mode. We believe in giving the man a fair hearing and the time to accomplish what we have given him a mandate for before rushing to judgement. We know that he has the intellect and the temperament necessary for the job, but that in itself is no guarantor of success. So, like you say, let's all wait and see.
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:29 AM
 
4,986 posts, read 8,326,840 times
Reputation: 3264
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
Gee, that's cute Moose. Why bother establishing anything in a discussion when you can simply label it solved and resolved.
Now you are making an overly broad statement simply for dramatic flair. I never said that any discussion is preordained. We are discussing a very specific subject and in that yes, until you can show me that there has been a real paradigm shift in American politics, I am certain nothing will ever change. And despite all of his procclamations to the contrary, Obama aint that change. He might like to think he is, but both political party's machines (the ones that caused all of this mess to begin with) are still as firmly entreched today as they were before the election.
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:41 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 9,930,711 times
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Isn't that what I just said? I could have sworn I said I'll wait and see. Let me take a look, hm-hm, ah-hah, hm hm hmmmhmmhmm hm. Yep, it's wait and see. I repose no trust at all in a politician, until the term is over, and even then, I trust them as far as I could toss them. They are mostly in it for self aggrandizement, with a little public service tossed into the mix.

If I sound cynical, it may be that I have been treated to the parade of politicians we have saddled ourselves with for the past 45 years - when I started caring. I find that Republicans have become too narrow, and Democrats too liberal.

I DO care. It's just hard for me to get wound up over the "possibility" that a politician will actually do what he said. Seeing is believing. Or something like that.

I learned to anticipate disappointment, and let my surprises be happy ones. And politicians as a breed, have never given me happy surprises. If they ever do, maybe my heart will give out again. I need a vacation anyway.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,541,608 times
Reputation: 3140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
And the right took it and ran with it, especially on internet forums like this one. I've never heard one person who voted for Obama stating that he's a "messiah" of any kind, yet I've heard countless wingnuts blaring that those of us who voted for him consider him so.

Unlike Sarah Palin, who must consider herself the messiah considering the way she signed those e-mails...most of us realize that we're all just human beings at the end of the day.


I saw very little of coverage of the idiot who compared Obama to God. It was on the news a couple of times and that was it.

Anyone who doesn't like what they are hearing or seeing of these so-called politicians need to be calling their offices or writing and expressing their opinions. However, I do doubt it will have any impact with any of them; once they get into office they do exactly as they please forgetting the little people who voted them in.

I don't care for Palin, or for any of them as far as that goes, but I do find it amusing how those that don't like her seem to have this fascination with her and her every word and like the ever-ready bunny, it keeps going and going and going and going...........

Last edited by Alaskapat528; 07-01-2009 at 08:57 AM.. Reason: add
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,541,608 times
Reputation: 3140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
Now you are making an overly broad statement simply for dramatic flair. I never said that any discussion is preordained. We are discussing a very specific subject and in that yes, until you can show me that there has been a real paradigm shift in American politics, I am certain nothing will ever change. And despite all of his procclamations to the contrary, Obama aint that change. He might like to think he is, but both political party's machines (the ones that caused all of this mess to begin with) are still as firmly entreched today as they were before the election.


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Old 07-01-2009, 10:23 AM
 
20,591 posts, read 26,751,341 times
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Actually it's Palin that reminds me of the energizer bunny, the way she's sticking her mug into every camera around.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 19,717,940 times
Reputation: 6480
Quote:
Originally Posted by warptman View Post
Palin's title on her new book...

"Um ah hmmm"
That was her "Obama without his teleprompter" impersonation. At least Gov. Palin can speak in coherent sentences without the aid of a teleprompter. So if she is considered "stupid" that says a lot more about the Affirmative Action President than it says about her.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 19,717,940 times
Reputation: 6480
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaPhil View Post
And just to make sure I tick everyone off, I tell all that I am not happy with anything or anyone in politics today. Palin is an idiot, and shouldn't be allowed time on any national forum. But, having said that, I agree that Obama lacks a certain cachet as a foreign policy guru as well.

I didn't vote for either, as McCain made a choice for VP that I thought lacked any sense. Obama was a little too liberal.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: A plague on both their houses. Obama may actually make a good or even a great president, but that is a matter for the future. I lacked a crystal ball on Election Day. It's still remaining to be seen. McCain might have lived through a 4 year presidency.

But, hell, I thought Reagan was going to be the worst choice for President, because he was nothing more than an actor in the California governor's seat. I disliked Clinton because he was a womanizing, draft-dodging, weasel. He still is, but he wasn't "bad" as a President. Just as a human being and a husband. He actually did nothing to make me think he was a mistake in office.

Hindsight is 20-20, so they say. Warren Harding was a disaster, and so was Bush the younger. I personally left the choice up to everyone else, because all I cared about was the fact that "W" was gone, and ANYONE was a better choice. And yes, I know that I will have no right to complain if the world crashes or Obama makes choices that I think are wrong.

Yep. You all can blame me for McCain losing, Obama winning and the loss of the presidency to the Democrats. So be it. I have broad shoulders. Metaphorically speaking. After all, I'm only 5'5" and weigh about 160. And 10 of that is centered in that pear shaped area in my gut.

So go ahead and shoot, I'll take it like a man. And 10 years from now, when the fallout of whatever is going on now is finally tallied, if Obama comes off as a real statesman, a follower of realpolitik on the world stage, and a financier extraordinaire, I will say, "Yes, you all were right." Until then, we'll just wait and see.

And hopefully, Palin will be over the 15 months of fame and forgotten. But the more you guys feed on this, the longer Alaska will have to be embarassed. At least we don't have to put up with Arnold and state bankruptcy.
I would like to blame you, as you requested, but I cannot because I did not vote for McCain or Obama either. When the choice is between an anti-American pro-terrorist Marxist and a mentally unstable liberal socialist, there really is not much of a choice.
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