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Old 01-14-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: In a time warp
782 posts, read 788,131 times
Reputation: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
You would never get to see your crops come to fruit. They would be stolen by others either at night or gunpoint. The deer would be hunted to almost extintion overnight by others doing the same survival mode.
Wow, I actually agree with this. If the s*** really hit the fan, roving hordes of starving, desperate people, as well as criminals, would overwhelm any properties which had valuable resources. Only if you had a compound with razor wire, surveillance, and armed guards would you stand a chance of keeping them out, and even then you'd likely be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. Of course, the more remotely located you were, the better.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: In a time warp
782 posts, read 788,131 times
Reputation: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
We did have one idjit troll who came around here a couple years ago trying to say he was going to start some kind of moose ranch and ride his moose like you would a horse. I miss the days when we had that sort of troll.
I'd actually like to find this thread. I always get a kick out of utter stupidity.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,272 posts, read 7,649,781 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspironmini View Post
I always here the same arguments about people from the city fleeing to the country and ruining everything, especially areas on the east coast that are relatively close to NYC, Boston, etc. But people are forgetting a few things about the masses in the city:

1. Gas stations would be out of gas and diesel before most people even had time to react. That means that the people who already had, or somehow acquired a full tank of gas will have just that...a full tank to get them wherever they thought they should go. The average car gets somewhere around 400 miles per tank, many get less than that. People from areas such as upstate Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine would not have issues with masses from NYC because they would run out of gas long before they got there.

2. Another thing to take in consideration is your general location from a large city. Arctichomesteader expressed concern about being in maine, but how many people from NYC are going to think "Hmmm, lets try and go hundreds of miles north where it is an even colder and harsher environment." Most people from the large metro areas on the east coast will try and go south to the relatively mild areas of virginia, tenessee, etc. This goes for anywhere in the country. How many people from Anchorage are going to try and flee to the desolate interior of Alaska? Not many.

3. Let's say that I am dead wrong on number 1 and 2. People are able to obtain gas and are deciding to head towards your area even if it seems irrational. The roads would be absolutely and utterly clogged to the point where no one would be able to get anywhere. If anyone has an accident, runs out of gas, or their car breaks down, there isn't going to be emergency services on hand to take care of that situation. That means that the highway/interstate is essentially closed and impassable. The hardcore people might be able to make it to your area on foot, but the sad fact is that most urban and suburban dwellers would die of starvation, exhaustion, dehydration, exposure, etc. before getting far from their city. How many people in the US (One of the fattest and most unhealthy countries in the world) have ever even walked 10 miles straight in their lives, let alone 20 miles for days at a time on minimul food and water.

I live an hour and a half north of NYC, and while some people would make it up here (the few that chose to go north), most would not. The freeways would be a mess and a majority of people would perish on foot.
I can understand your thinking but there is a flaw. A a tank of gas in Alaska will get you from Anchorage to Fairbanks and beyond in most cars/trucks. People in those two cities can span out a long way on a tank of gas on the road systems here in short order.

In the lower 48 States, you may not see someone from NY in CA, but when you figure that most cars have a 400 mile range, and there are millions of those folks in city centers all over the Country, and they will leave the cities in all directions, that will pretty much cover the entire country with a mass of folks that are desperate to feed themselves or families. It will look like Locus on a map...

It will only take a few dozen people trying to steal your crops to put you under. There won't be any real "Destination", it will be more of finding a way out of where they are at. Yes the Highways may be flooded, but there are hundreds of side roads and other exit points from most major cities.

Sadly, look at the Earthquake in Haiti, the masses are getting desperate and the Government there is pretty much useless. Shortly people are going to be starving in mass and even with the limited aid coming in, there will be anarchy in the streets and things are going to get even worse before it gets better. They have about two million people, we have 300 million...
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:20 PM
 
11,763 posts, read 17,771,336 times
Reputation: 2649
The other thing about the highways being gridlocked is that the stranded motorists will be perfect targets for anyone who is armed. Gasoline can last up to two years with a stabilizing agent added to it.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:11 AM
 
2,026 posts, read 2,186,099 times
Reputation: 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grannysroost View Post
And though some food could be grown, I doubt it would be enough, so hence the food and supply train from the -48 or elsewhere.
Back in the 1930s and 1940s, the Fairbanks area was said to be fairly independent in food production. There were several dairies; even wheat was grown. Today, all the dairies are gone and mostly hay is grown for the hobby horse crowd.

I know people there doing the Community-Supported Agriculture and one should be able to grow enough in the 3-month growing season to can, root-cellar, or dry enough vegetable matter to go along with meat, eggs, and milk from dairy goats. It would be hard, but some people could survive, especially in a community.

When I read that people talk about getting loaded up on bullets and canned food, I usually suggest that they use a can-opener instead of shooting the lids off.

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Old 01-15-2010, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Bethel, Alaska
471 posts, read 632,748 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Back in the 1930s and 1940s, the Fairbanks area was said to be fairly independent in food production. There were several dairies; even wheat was grown. Today, all the dairies are gone and mostly hay is grown for the hobby horse crowd.

I know people there doing the Community-Supported Agriculture and one should be able to grow enough in the 3-month growing season to can, root-cellar, or dry enough vegetable matter to go along with meat, eggs, and milk from dairy goats. It would be hard, but some people could survive, especially in a community.

When I read that people talk about getting loaded up on bullets and canned food, I usually suggest that they use a can-opener instead of shooting the lids off.

I think food can be grown anywhere given the effort and money, its just if the costs outweigh... :\
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:15 AM
 
Location: on top of a mountain
7,016 posts, read 6,601,575 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamcoltra View Post
I think food can be grown anywhere given the effort and money, its just if the costs outweigh... :\
Iceburg lettuce grows in Barrow!! hehehe...take lots to heat and light a greenhouse in many given places ...that is if you have fuel and/or power source!!
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:39 AM
 
2,026 posts, read 2,186,099 times
Reputation: 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamcoltra View Post
I think food can be grown anywhere given the effort and money, its just if the costs outweigh... :\
True, but in Alaska, the Interior (Delta, Fairbanks) and the Mat-Su Valley have the best farming infra-structure due to a longer history of agriculture. In Fairbanks one can get ripe corn most summers, unlike the Mat-Su which tends to be a bit cloudier. But, I wouldn't grow corn for self-sufficiency; there are better things for starch.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Very close to water
215 posts, read 176,814 times
Reputation: 215
Chance's are paper money will be worthless - coins can be smelted into something usefull - barter and trade will be the currency. Some country's ( Belgium is one ) now change their paper and coin every few yrs and if you don't turn in the old it becomes worthless. If you have a jar of veggie seeds would you give it up for a couple of peices of paper or would you trade them for some fish or meat or other goods. Money as we know it was created for taxation, a paper trail.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,272 posts, read 7,649,781 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
True, but in Alaska, the Interior (Delta, Fairbanks) and the Mat-Su Valley have the best farming infra-structure due to a longer history of agriculture. In Fairbanks one can get ripe corn most summers, unlike the Mat-Su which tends to be a bit cloudier. But, I wouldn't grow corn for self-sufficiency; there are better things for starch.
Well what they have now, won't be there if stuff hits the fan as far as farming goes.

By the way, corn won't grow in here in the interior Alaska, at best it gets to about waist high. Corn needs darkness to grow, if you put black plastic over it for about eight hours at night, it will grow to full height. Not very practical except for a small garden, but some do it. I wasn't aware of that until about ten years ago when a friend built a black plastic cover over his corn, up til then I just figured it wouldn't grow for some reason here... I was because of too much light.

At night in my in-laws corn field in Ohio, you can hear the corn cracking and moving as it grows on a calm night.
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