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Old 03-24-2010, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,292 posts, read 37,174,791 times
Reputation: 16397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
Well if you wish to you can read today's ADN for starters and potentially wake up or if you want to keep sleeping by all means be my guest. Either way you're out of time. It is happening now.
There will be ten initial steps of implementation (I posted them yesterday), but when the bill goes into full effect is after three years from now. However, Congress hasn't allocated the moneys needed for these ten first steps. So, who knows when the money will be available? If you read the article I posted yesterday, it explains the pros and cons of each step.
washingtonpost.com

Now, keep in mind that the timeline above is just a plan Congress is arguing about. But once they force all Americans to buy insurance, the IRS will be imposing a fine to individuals who haven't purchased insurance. According to what I have been listening on the news, it would be cheaper for an individual in good health not to buy health insurance and pay the fine, because buying the insurance costs a lot more. But this too may change in the future.

Last edited by RayinAK; 03-24-2010 at 09:11 PM..

 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:03 PM
 
4,989 posts, read 10,020,530 times
Reputation: 3285
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrien View Post
I don't like this part either. I would like it if I could afford to seek medical care, I am insured but the costs are still prohibitory! I worry constantly about affording my daughter's insulin just to keep her alive!
All we had to do was open up all insurance to a free market across state lines, then step back and see what happened. If we didn't like the result we could have tweaked it a little more. Anyone who is experienced in troubleshooting a complex system knows that you don't make massive changes all at once - i.e. you don't introduce multiple variables into an equation because you will never be able to predict, let alone control the results. Attempting to do so is pure hubris.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 2,269,131 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
What? Did you fail basic Econ 101? Any private company that denied a service enough times would go out of business - people would cease purchasing their product or service. You can only save money by denying something in a Government controlled monopoly where people are NOT FREE to make their own choices.
It is BECAUSE I have a good understanding of Econ 101 that I hold the view I do. You are clearly unaware that health care is one industry that is a special case, economically speaking. You should read Kenneth Arrow on this. If you do not know who he is, Google is your friend.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 2,269,131 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
If this healthcare bill is so good, please explain to me how come members of Congress and President Obama are exempt from participating in it.
And this in your estimation makes is a bad bill?

Two points - one, Obama and his staff have decided to voluntarily participate in the same health care plan.

Two, the bill can - and will - be made better as months and years go by. Did you expect a perfect product coming off the line in one iteration (and given all the Republican obstruction)?
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 2,269,131 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
It's astonishing that the left wingers don't see this: Obamacare is forcing all Americans to buy insurance from the same insurance companies they are complaining about
That is why we need a strong public option (aka Medicare for all). It will come, and not a day too soon.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:13 PM
 
4,989 posts, read 10,020,530 times
Reputation: 3285
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
It is BECAUSE I have a good understanding of Econ 101 that I hold the view I do. You are clearly unaware that health care is one industry that is a special case, economically speaking. You should read Kenneth Arrow on this. If you do not know who he is, Google is your friend.
Next you'll be quoting Paul Krugman.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 2,269,131 times
Reputation: 756
Fellows are now pretending as if they don't remember the events of the past 12 months. The obstruction, the shouting and the intimidation at town hall meetings etc. Given all that, it is a miracle that we have a bill at all. IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER. AND IT WILL.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 2,269,131 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
All we had to do was open up all insurance to a free market across state lines, then step back and see what happened.
That would have been a race to the bottom. Paul Krugman has demolished this argument convincingly.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,292 posts, read 37,174,791 times
Reputation: 16397
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
That is why we need a strong public option (aka Medicare for all). It will come, and not a day too soon.
But the simple fact the Medicare itself is in the red should tell you that such things don't work. Even Walgreens decided not to accept new Medicaid prescriptions this week, and the reason why this thread was started was because hospitals and doctors all around the US don't want Medicare patients. What do you think will happen to Obamacare? We just don't have to money to pay for it.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:16 PM
 
4,989 posts, read 10,020,530 times
Reputation: 3285
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
That is why we need a strong public option (aka Medicare for all). It will come, and not a day too soon.
Doubtful. We'll be broke long before then.

Quote:
The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

--Margret Thatcher
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