New Oil and Gas Exploration (Barrow, Fox: school, licensed, station)

[Moose Whisperer]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

This thread has degenerated to a point where it should be closed.

Those are the best kind!

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer

Those are the best kind!

Did I tell you that in my previous like I would just jump across open water from ice floe to ice floe? Yes, sir. That was interesting

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Well I have posted photos repeatedly for your benefit of our boats being frozen in and had to be removed from the ice that you pretend isn't there.

First, I've never said a thing about there not being ice at Prudhoe Bay. Second, what I did say was that the video you posted claiming to prove there is shore ice at Barrow in September in fact shows there was no shore ice until November.

Worst of all, the photo you just posted does not show your boat "being frozen in".

Why do you make false statements and then post absolute proof that they are false?

But as I stated, this last four years, it has been getting colder to where each year we have had to pull boats earlier by a week each year. In 2005, we got to work until the first of November, but it seems the Arctic is getting colder... Barrow is farther North by a few miles, but I doubt that it is warmer when Prudhoe Bay is Freezing to the East.

So ice forming sooner at Prudhoe Bay over a 4 year period is proof that the entire Arctic is getting significantly colder, and therefore so is Barrow???? You're concept of science is fascinating. Seems that if you see a polar bear, all bears are alive and well. If you see two caribou, there are thousands of them.

This was taken Sept 28, 2009 last year (the video I posted of the ice pack was 2008)... Notice the white stuff in the water, that is "Slush", it starts out that way, and then freezes solid in a day or so, then guess what, your access to the ocean is done, boating season is at an end. Our boats were out of the water a few days after this photo was taken, along with the ACS fleet (Alaska Clean Seas oil response boats) and other contractors.

So you admit your photo does not support what you have claimed! You say the access is done in a day or so, but you waited "a few days" to get it out of the water.

All of which is fine. But as the video you posted showed, that sort of slush can blow in with the right wind too, and is not necessarily an indication that boating is done for the season.

Your inference that because Barrow is farther north that it has shore ice earlier, much less at the same time, as Prudhoe is just more of an indication of the naive pseudo science you engage in. Barrow is a point, surrounded on three sides by water (a "bay" by definition is water surrounded by land). It is also much farther west of the icepack than Prudhoe Bay.

The original point of contention was whether there is boating around barrow before you folks start and after you folks leave. You pulled your boats out of the water in early October of 2009. Fall whaling continue well after than here in Barrow, using boats that are far too large to "drag across the ice", not to mention that there was no ice.

Here's an interesting image to compare with yours. This was taken the next day. It shows three whaling boats in Elson Lagoon. This is the most protected navigable water accessible by road from Barrow, and hence is the first place to freeze up each winter and the last place where there is ice in the summer. Note that there are three boats (the one front and center is flying the crew flag to signify that they caught a whale, and it is the smallest of the three boats), all of which are too large to drag across any ice.

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

This thread has degenerated to a point where it should be closed.

Poor boy, another discussion that goes over your head?

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Poor boy, another discussion that goes over your head?

But jumping from ice flow to ice flow was easy with my long legs and big feet that were covered with bear hide. Then during the summer I could scamper across the swampy land and tundra at pretty good speed. That was a lot more interesting than going over my head

But in order to understand what I am talking about, you have to know some my ancestors before Big Butt:

Posted by Robert M Oregon
February 05, 1999

We North westerners have wondered for quite some time why the Pacific Northwest is the habitat of Bigfoot. Scientific evidence has recently come to light that shows these creatures have developed their large feet as a result of an evolutionary trend due mainly to climate conditions.

The rainy conditions that causes a layer of mud to cover much of the terrain, it has been discovered, has caused an adaptation to occur which allows Bigfoot to walk on the wet surface without becoming mired ankle deep and therefore stranded in the rush of oncoming mudslides. (This is supported by evidence of sightings of the Yeti, or more commonly, the Abominable Snowman in the Himalayas, whose feet have grown to snowshoe-size proportions. They are able then to scamper away from oncoming avalanches.)

Fossils have been found of a creature that pre-dates Bigfoot. This animal was known as Patella Rex, literally King Kneecap. Big Knee ruled the Northwest Rainforests when the climate was even wetter, and the mud was knee deep. Again, Indian legends speak of Big Knee with awe and reverence. Unfortunately, most records of this monster were lost in the Y1K hieroglyphics crash, when the now extinct Bark Bug demolished the bark libraries.

Scientists and other explorers are excited, however, by the recent discovery of two large smooth indentations nearly eight feet across found in a sample of slaty mudstone that appear to predate even Big Knee. One of the researchers was quoted as saying; "This discovery clearly indicates the effect of climate on the evolutionary trend that leads us to Bigfoot. The Pacific Northwest was even wetter in the past, and we now have proof of the existence and origin of Big Butt."
--------
That was long ago in my previous life. Just by a miracle I skipped the Big Butts generation, and lipped into this life as a human being.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

First, I've never said a thing about there not being ice at Prudhoe Bay. Second, what I did say was that the video you posted claiming to prove there is shore ice at Barrow in September in fact shows there was no shore ice until November.

Worst of all, the photo you just posted does not show your boat "being frozen in".

Why do you make false statements and then post absolute proof that they are false?

So ice forming sooner at Prudhoe Bay over a 4 year period is proof that the entire Arctic is getting significantly colder, and therefore so is Barrow???? You're concept of science is fascinating. Seems that if you see a polar bear, all bears are alive and well. If you see two caribou, there are thousands of them.

So you admit your photo does not support what you have claimed! You say the access is done in a day or so, but you waited "a few days" to get it out of the water.

All of which is fine. But as the video you posted showed, that sort of slush can blow in with the right wind too, and is not necessarily an indication that boating is done for the season.

Your inference that because Barrow is farther north that it has shore ice earlier, much less at the same time, as Prudhoe is just more of an indication of the naive pseudo science you engage in. Barrow is a point, surrounded on three sides by water (a "bay" by definition is water surrounded by land). It is also much farther west of the icepack than Prudhoe Bay.

The original point of contention was whether there is boating around barrow before you folks start and after you folks leave. You pulled your boats out of the water in early October of 2009. Fall whaling continue well after than here in Barrow, using boats that are far too large to "drag across the ice", not to mention that there was no ice.

Here's an interesting image to compare with yours. This was taken the next day. It shows three whaling boats in Elson Lagoon. This is the most protected navigable water accessible by road from Barrow, and hence is the first place to freeze up each winter and the last place where there is ice in the summer. Note that there are three boats (the one front and center is flying the crew flag to signify that they caught a whale, and it is the smallest of the three boats), all of which are too large to drag across any ice.

My photo was taken and posted here on the forum almost the same day last fall ( Last blast in the Arctic Ocean ), your photo is dated on the photo, could have been taken in August, what does that prove... As for the video I posted, it was a 2008 version by the ice cam, my photo was a year later in 2009 when the ice was there.

As for your claim that the ice wasn't' formed before we pulled out boats out is a good grasp of clues by you, once it is frozen a few days later, you are screwed.... That is why we pull boats "BEFORE" they freeze to the shore, not "AFTER" as you claim they do in Barrow.

[starlite9]

Hey Floyd, why is the guy flying a "Whiskey" flag from his skiff? It means he is in need of medical assistance... Or is he the bootlegger for the area?

By the way, isn't that ice off in the distance or the shore with the ice on it and they are trying to find a place to put in... and take out...

[Floyd_Davidson]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Hey Floyd, why is the guy flying a "Whiskey" flag from his skiff? It means he is in need of medical assistance... Or is he the bootlegger for the area?

By the way, isn't that ice off in the distance or the shore with the ice on it and they are trying to find a place to put in... and take out...

Jeeze, you're worse than I thought.

I believe that boat belongs to former North Slope Borough mayor George Ahmaogak, and the symbol has probably been in use here for over 100 years.

Jeeze again... you imagine all sorts of things. Elson Lagoon, as you should have realized, is a lagoon! It has land all around it. What you see in the distance is snow covered ground not ice. If you look close you can see the former DEWLINE site (now an LRRS).

What you dont't see (except in your imagination) is any ice at all, shore ice or otherwise.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Jeeze, you're worse than I thought.

I believe that boat belongs to former North Slope Borough mayor George Ahmaogak, and the symbol has probably been in use here for over 100 years.

Jeeze again... you imagine all sorts of things. Elson Lagoon, as you should have realized, is a lagoon! It has land all around it. What you see in the distance is snow covered ground not ice. If you look close you can see the former DEWLINE site (now an LRRS).

What you dont't see (except in your imagination) is any ice at all, shore ice or otherwise.

No, that flag has been in use for centuries. It is part of the international alphabet and stands for the letter "W", and when flown by itself, means what I said it does. These guys are running boats in internatioal waters and are required to meet both State and Federal boating laws even though they have been over looked for years. At some point they will be called on it by the Coast Guard, which is slowly making a presence there.

Again, you take outstanding photos, but are clueless on the water as well as the meanings on it.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Jeeze again... you imagine all sorts of things. Elson Lagoon, as you should have realized, is a lagoon! It has land all around it. What you see in the distance is snow covered ground not ice. If you look close you can see the former DEWLINE site (now an LRRS).

What you dont't see (except in your imagination) is any ice at all, shore ice or otherwise.

Anyway to date your photo to show when it was taken... Could be August... September or ten years ago. My photo was taken and posted last fall during the freezeup, which gives it a time/date stamp to start from.

Yours is a neat photo, but is just hearsay since snowfall can occur at any time during the summer months there, although it will melt off quickly in the short summer. Oh, and being a Lagoon, doesn't mean the entrance can't be iced over or closed due to floatng sea ice blown in.

So a photo of a duck pond isn't the same as the ocean by your own admitance.