What's wrong with Troy, NY? (New York, Albany: middle-class, rentals, insurance)

[itjstagame]

Everyone has said many valid points but I want to clear up some things, the main of which is about the bad areas, Troy is a very long (North to South) and narrow city, it stretchs along the hudson for quite a while. In this respect it really acts as multiple cities, the different neighborhoods are not all touching each other and surrounding each other.

I went to college in Troy for 4 years and though it did have it's problems I came to really like it. The main thing I love is the narrow layout. From most all places in Troy you can be on I787 (interstate expressway) in about 5 mins. Also if you head East you are instantly into a rural area, there is Brunswick as a suburb but not much after that, it's very nice farm/countryside all the way to Vermont (only 20-30 mins away!).

The architecture and history is awesome and I love the downtown. The main thing I probably love about the downtown is that it's more empty than a place like Lark St in Albany. Albany is a good comparison, Lark St is right next to Arbor Hill and Washington Park which are both very bad at night. I've had more than one friend broken into only a block away from Lark. No one I know has ever been broken into in Troy. Of course I think Troy does have more big crimes like killings and the such and does have some gangs and lots of drugs. I think it's more contained and much less of a scale than the issues in Schenectady.

I just bought a house in South Troy in March. Now South Troy IS one of the bad areas but really only a small area inside it is bad, as was said most all of the really bad crimes happen in Central Troy. I'm actually on the first street into Troy, a nice quiet Dead End and I couldn't be happier.

Really nice areas in Troy and around there are Pawling and Spring (right near me in South End) and North Greenbush. Only certain areas of East Greenbush are nice and all of Rennselaer feels dumpy to me. Watervliet is a giant township and has some very nice areas, especially the northern or southern sections. But the area right across the bridge from Central Troy is very dumpy. The whole area does feel like a dirty, industrial town, that IS it's heritage, but the riverfront and Victorian buildings of downtown are very pretty. Another place I really like is Waterford, it's right across from North Troy/Lansignburgh (which is a great place) and also feels like a quiet/quaint riverfront town.

I really do wish the whole area could be revived, maybe artists can help, cheap victorian flats with river views and great antique shops to sell your paintings. But the sprawl of Central Troy won't leave, it's like a suburb and most of the buildings don't look or feel historical and are in a lot of disrepair.

Now, all that said, I plan to be move out by the time my child (currently 4 months) is old enough to go to school. Maybe I just haven't looked into the area schools enough, but I grew up in the country where the only crimes were cowtipping, slight drug use and maybe occasional stolen car. Giant city schools with gangs and weapons frighten me.

I think South Troy isn't so bad and it's not that big of an area either, it has an upcomding 'Little Italy' (not that I know of any italians that live there ) in the middle of it and I think the 'cleaning up' of Downtown could be brought down through it. But it is one of the more active/industrial settings as well. Barge sites for gravel, scrap metal, etc all along the waterfront instead of shops.

Ok, I hope that was only mildly confusing... I feel like I was typing forever. Hopefully some of that will be useful to you. Feel free to message me or post your exact houses/areas you're looking at and I can tell you precisely what to expect. Definately take the time to drive through any area as well as drive through at 10pm or midnight and see what 'nightlife' there is where there shouldn't be. To me there's these gradings of safety:
undrivable during the day (even in daylight and in my car I'm scared to drive through there) - Arbor Hill
unwalkable during the day (I'll drive through fine but would be a bit afraid to walk through) - All of Central/South Schenectady, Central Troy (North of Hoosick/Rt 7 but south of Lansingburgh/Waterford)
unwalkable at night (but very quiet during the day) - Troy Downtown, South Troy
completely quiet at all hours - Most of Watervliet, Waterford, Scoharie, North Greenbush and anywhere north or east of Troy)
completely and utterly quiet except for the squirrels and critters - everything past the last areas, Scuylerville, etc, anywhere 20 mins north or east of Troy)

[averagenyjoe]

[quote=itjstagame;1055489]Everyone has said many valid points but I want to clear up some things, the main of which is about the bad areas, Troy is a very long (North to South) and narrow city, it stretchs along the hudson for quite a while. In this respect it really acts as multiple cities, the different neighborhoods are not all touching each other and surrounding each other............"

I like the detail on the last post and it fills in on some things others of us have missed in our posts, but I was just curious about where you consider right across the river from central Troy? That would be Green Island wouldnt it? If so, I thought that was a community much like what North Troy would be. Perhaps in need of some renewed energy and vitality but on the whole just a good blue collar fairly clean community. Also does anyone know if North Troy (Lansingburg) has a drug or gang problem? I failed to mention in my last post that there is indeed at least 2 different Troys and the whole city shouldnt be painted with one brush. North Troy being called Lansingburg which gives it almost its very own identity. I have always seen it sort of like Cohoes. Also needing some energy and vitality but a good clean average community. We drive from Schenectady frequently to go to the "snowman" ice cream place. It was voted as one of the best kept secrets in the Capital Region. And rightfully so. all Homade. meaning its not shipped in from "perrys" or "hershy" or one of the other big wholesalers. In a way, I feel like Lansingburg has a sort of charm to it.

[shandor]

itsjstagame,

Wow. I was about to write almost the exact post that you did after reading so much of the nonsense from the other posts! You did a great job. I too went to RPI for like, 13 years (im not very smart! lol no, i got a PhD), and at first hated Troy, like most college students hate the town their college is in.

to everyone,
I have now lived here for most of my life (I grew up in NYC, can't stand it there anymore too many people in my way).

Troy: 1/2 the crime rate of Albany, 2/3 the crime rate of Schenectady. So lets stop with the stories of crime. All cities have crime. All cities have bad areas. If you dont want to be in a bad area, dont buy a house there, that goes for all cities. However, the best deals are in bad areas that may rise up. Look at harlem in NYC, look at almost anywhere in Troy in 1995!

People who keep equating troy with incredibly hard time it had form the 60's to the 90's simply have not been here. I now own two awesome historic old buildings downtown. The person who talked about the artists is right, we have more galleries and new studios than ever. Further we have other evidence of a renaissance like a pilates center, new coffee houses, new restaurants and the best farmers market in the capital region. These things usually do not exist in run down cities with no hope. they are in fact signs of great progress and promise.

People know each other in Troy. Its nice to walk down the street and talk to people, its also nice that the streets aren't jam packed all the time.

Living downtown really provides the best of all worlds. you get the convenience of a downtown, and the incredibly short distance to other things like lakes, hiking, biking, and only 2-3 hours to 3 major cities and 4 hours to Montreal.

Investmentwise, i dont think you can do better around Albany, there are so many buildings that can be bought at a low rate and improved. Unfortunately most of the screamingly good deals are gone (bought my building for 85K in 1997, building next to me which is smaller, just sold for 540K). We just bought another one for 380K (this was high, but it had specific features we were looking for, like yard, outside street access storage, developed apartments, etc), we think we can sell for 650K in a few years after some renovation.

So, yeah, I'm pretty happy with troy, its achievable potential, and the area as a whole. Those you have a bad view of Troy simply have not experienced it and are just listening to other people who have not experienced it.

As for across the river, Watervliet has some nice areas and a few nice buildings, and a REALLY awesome church if that is your thing. I dont think you will see the renewal in watervliet that you are seeing in troy (then again lots of people though troy had no hope too!).

Waterford is nice, I just wish the city planners did a better job of keeping industry out of historic residential areas. Troy has done some stupid things too, projects and the Jail on the river make it really hard to improve the waterfront!

[averagenyjoe]

Hey, I just thought I'd throw this in to Troy's credit. I was looking for work when I recently moved back to this area from NC and I thought I'd like to apply at the Nature Conservancy. Are you ready for this. Their office was in "TROY" (at that time) I went to apply there smack dab in "Downtown".
They were right in the middle of moving to New Karner rd. area but what was amazing to me was EVERYONE on staff there was very sad to be leaving the city. Nature Conservancy folks. They are one of the "kingpins" of environmentalism. They "LOVED" being in troy and were going to miss their office. They talked about being able to walk around town on their lunch and go to some neat cafe's and shops.
Yes, Troy unfortunately is still being labled on its undesirable past but just hold on folks, the next chapter is being written as we speak. The real estate jump in the last comment should speak for itself.

[Logan11]

Do a google on Metroland newspaper and Troy Renaissance. They had a good article on the changes taking place in Troy. I live in Duanesburg so I'm hardly any expert, but it sounded positive.

My guess is that people finally realized that it wasn't worth being stuck in traffic heading to Saratoga County ...and are rediscovering the charm of the closer-in older cities. Also I think Troy is getting people from downstate moving up.

Oh and regarding our ghettos in the Capital District (Arbor Hill etc.) ...I had to chuckle a little there. I work in NYC occasionally and Arbor Hill doesn't phase me compared to some sections of eastern Brooklyn and the Bronx I occasionally have to traverse. I guess its all relative.

[popartrock]

Hey guys, I have read over everything written here and I have to say I 50/50 agree/disagree....but the discussion is lively and interesting!

I grew up in Troy in the 1980's and at that time Troy was in what everyone called a "low point". The Atrium was slowly dying as businesses closed or moved out (eg. Carl Co.), many of the local stores were gone and the downtown was sort of dead. Then in the late 80's and 1990's there was the big resurgence of Troy...now the "Renissance" or whatever they are calling it. This was when the "incubator" buildings were started up to attract businesses with lower rents and understanding landlords. Many of the restaurants opened and the Antiques row began to develop.

Despite this up and down, Troy always had issues with petty crimes, some drugs and a few annoying homeless folks...but overall it was a nice place to grow up with a rich history. Even as a pre-teen my friends and I would go downtown without our parents and as a teen I ventured to South Troy for punk rock shows...and never had any problems. At 31 years old, my fondest memories are of places and people I knew in Troy. If I had a time machine, the first thing I would do with it would be going back to my youth in Troy and experiencing it all over again...without changing a thing. I regret losing touch with Troy and alot of those people.

I know that times change, maybe Troy has gotten worse. However, I lived in Albany up until a few years ago and crime around Lark Street was worse than Troy. Now I live in Baltimore, and you can forget it!! Baltimore has the entire Capital Region beat when it comes to every kind of crime or drug offense you can think of!!! (Never...NEVER move to Baltimore or any area near by!)

Even so, I would suggest Troy to anyone! I am even considering moving my family back there, now that we have kids. I know that I won't find the same place where I grew up, but when you compare life there to 99% of the rest of the country....Troy is a nice, homey place to live and it is situated in a rich, cultural area close to both Boston and NYC.

I hope Troy receives the smart, family oriented people and exciting businesses that it deserves, now and in the future!!

[averagenyjoe]

popartrock,
you struck a chord with me. you are being honest about Troy with its ups and downs. But just as accurate with the comparison thing. Baltimore makes troy look like what the Bible describes as "heaven". Now that’s a bold statement but true. Troy does have its little aggravations but is surely coming back.
I spent fully half my life in the South but spent my youth and school days in Cohoes. Cohoes, as you know has a similar reputation of being an arm-pit little city that everyone sticks their noses up at. But like you, I have such warm memories of that little place and even my wife who has never lived in NY till now doesn’t even quite understand my attraction to the place. And even though I used to get beat up now & then by the typical school bullies, I still love it and again, like you, I would go back if I could and do it all over again. Now that I have a son, I want SO bad for him to have that hometown life, even if he does get roughed up a little like I did. We have for the last 23 years lived in this ever sickening sanitized suburban, get in your car and drive to the big box store kind of existence and I am sick of it already. Oh I hope you get back up this way. Troy is not where my memories lie but it is not as bad as some make it out and besides, they're your memories and I for one respect you for them. C'mon back home. We need folks that are proud of their towns.

[pphillipp]

This has been a very interesting, very enlightening thread for us - we're a couple who is thinking of moving to Troy, for numerous reasons.

We have many questions, however, and wonder if anyone would be willing to respond offline (so that we don't hijack the entire thread). If so, just shoot me a message, and let me know. We'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks!

[victorianlady]

I know I'm late to this question, but I've just stumbled onto this site and read all the posts and I have to say, I agree with most everything being said (though, I'd never move to Amsterdam). I grew up in Cohoes (on the Island) and was quite sheltered to say the least. I have lived in Watervliet, just across the river and have for about 30 years, I lived in South Troy for a short time, when my children were very young and it was a little scarey, not a place to raise children if you have a choice (even now). A lot of the bad elements, are moving from South Troy to North Troy (Lansingburgh). My daughters friend lives just down the street from the Snowman Ice Cream Shop in North Troy and is looking to get out to the suburbs for her childrens sake, the dealers and gangs are moving in (as they get run out of the larger neighboring cities) loud music thumping away from the cars that will sit idling on street corners at any hour of the day or night.

But Troy is changing for the better every day, especially the downtown area, the Mayor and Police are really trying to bring it back to a great place to live and seriously, like any CITY it has it's good and not so good neighborhoods. I'm a 57 year old grandma and I love visiting the antique shops along the newly revitalized River Street either alone or with a couple of girlfriends, my younger daughter works evenings at the Arts Center on that same stretch and she loves it too. Troy hosts various downtown activities such as the Art Festival in the summer and annual Victorian Stroll the first week in December (my personal favorite) there's also a river festival in the summer time. This year they had Troy night the last Friday of each month and many of the shops and cafe's stayed open later into the evening. I attended a couple of those also. There's the Captain JP Cruise line that you can enjoy a 3 hour boat ride down Hudson River to the Port of Albany and return pretty much any night during the warm part of the year, complete with dinner and live music (also very nice). I could go on an on.

It's really difficult to move sight unseen to any new town. I think you actually have to live in a place to decide what's right for you, maybe you could rent for a while at least that way you have choices. If you're moving from a large area like NYC, then Troy is a small town and perhaps you'd love it here. But frankly, even with all the points I mentioned above, I wouldn't want my daughters to move their families to the City part of Troy, or even to the City School District. That said I will tell you that one of my daughters lives in Troy, but on the outskirts of the city and they love it, her children go to the country schools in Averill Park, there seem to be fewer problems then the city schools (any city schools) and I believe the schools rating are higher than the city schools. Not to mention cleaner streets and well kept backyards are the norm, I think because there are more owner occupied homes. Vacant houses are not vacant long like they are in the City. Getting downtown is easy, if and when they want to go, which isn't too often because they are busy in their own community, but they do like to take in a show at NYS Theatre Institute on the Russell Sage Campus.

But remember, I'm from a small town (Cohoes) and raised my family in a small town (Watervliet) where the schools and classroom sizes are smaller. Both of my daughters graduating classes were only about 180 students and our schools are still small.

Good luck, I think you've gotten some good feedback

[Timtheman]

There was a time when Saratoga was "dead", totally written off, and I know guys in their 70's in Albany who say the dumbest thing they ever did was not buy into downtown Saratoga. Troy has real potential. The downtown and waterfront I think will be the next real estate surprise boom. There's loft potential and the whole bit. It's even a college town. The necessary cops will follow the investment -- just like the East Village -- and it will all work out with the crime issue. And no, I'm not in real estate in Troy or anywhere.