Albuquerque Light Rail (mall, residential, place)

[Shmikker]

Originally Posted by Rob Martinez

Well, if you never ride a bus, that's a waste of taxpayer money to you. But buses are needed, whether you or I ride them or not. Light rail is another public transportation alternative, not a money maker, but neither are libraries or swimming pools.

I never said to ignore buses or not use them. My point is that our priorities in this country ought to be to improve public transportation over more frivolous things we are spending billions on.

And yes, light rail IS sexy! But that's what sells in the USA, and if we can get a sector of our population to use it instead of their cars, I am all for it.

Have you ever been to London or Madrid? Or New York or LA? They have buses AND rail systems, so does Portland Oregon. We CAN do both.

Or can we? What is it with Albuquerque? Most cities can have sidewalks and sewer systems AND build arenas for their population. But in Albuquerque, it's always squared as, "No, we can't build an arena or have light rail. We need sidewalks and sewer systems." It's time to stop thinking so narrowly, in my opinion. There will come a time when light rail will make perfect sense in Albuquerque, it will just cost ten times more to do it than if we invest in our future NOW.

i agree if we dont do it (arena, light rail a future!) then el paso or tuscon will i am beginning to loose confidence in the city, its taking too long and every one's anti growth talk is depressing. there is a DEMAND! do you know what that means? it means people are willing and want to pay for these things.

[trappedinNM]

Originally Posted by Shmikker

i agree if we dont do it (arena, light rail a future!) then el paso or tuscon will i am beginning to loose confidence in the city, its taking too long and every one's anti growth talk is depressing. there is a DEMAND! do you know what that means? it means people are willing and want to pay for these things.

Who cares if they do? I just checked Google and could find no reference to the "Which city can waste the most money on projects that return the least increase in quality of life for the most money" contest.

Many of us professionals and business owners are not anti-growth, but more anti-tax. To further clarify, we are not even anti-tax as much as we are anti-stupidity-and-wasteful tax. I have no issue paying taxes for services that benefit the city as a whole. Light Rail makes no sense here right now when there is already a viable alternative. It is simply not a good economic decision - it is political. There are better things to spend the money on. An arena is in the same category.

If an arena was warranted (you state there is DEMAND and a willingness to pay), why hasn't a private developer stepped up and built one? The fact is that a private owner could never turn a profit or a decent return on net assets unless the project was heavily subsidized by the taxpayer. Who benefits? One might argue that the city benefits as a whole. On the other hand, at what cost? I have stated before that when the city steps forward with an accurate accounting of the real cost to the taxpayer and then puts it to a vote, I would support that decision. One only has to think back to the baseball stadium "renovation" project to understand how slimy our elected officials are. By the way, I was at the Isotopes game the other day and it was fairly empty. I guess even if you build it, they don't always come.

Peace.

[Tim Rankin]

Originally Posted by trappedinNM

If an arena was warranted (you state there is DEMAND and a willingness to pay), why hasn't a private developer stepped up and built one? The fact is that a private owner could never turn a profit or a decent return on net assets unless the project was heavily subsidized by the taxpayer. Who benefits? One might argue that the city benefits as a whole. On the other hand, at what cost?

Trapped, the gov't often heavily subsidizes transportation projects. Look at the interstate hwy system. I don't see how a private owner/developer could have turned a profit there.

The irony for business owners is, that same interstate hwy system was also a giant, multi-decade, steroid shot for the US economy. The belief that anything gov't is bad, and everything private is good, is just erroneous. There are examples of both good & bad for both the gov't and pvt sectors.

[trappedinNM]

Originally Posted by Tim Rankin

Trapped, the gov't often heavily subsidizes transportation projects. Look at the interstate hwy system. I don't see how a private owner/developer could have turned a profit there.

The irony for business owners is, that same interstate hwy system was also a giant, multi-decade, steroid shot for the US economy. The belief that anything gov't is bad, and everything private is good, is just erroneous. There are examples of both good & bad for both the gov't and pvt sectors.

There is a difference between infrastructure and transportation. Likewise, if the Mayor had suggested spending 28 million per mile to build another Central Ave adjacent to the current road because some people don't like the other one, what would the response be? For me it is all cost/benefit: is the projected benefit worth the cost to the taxpayer. The better litmus test is "would I spend MY money on the project." It is always easier to spend somebody elses money.

[trappedinNM]

Let me just add that I would rather pay $10 billion for a comprehensive transportation system that is usable and used than $1 billion for a system that was built for show and just sits there.

[trappedinNM]

Originally Posted by trappedinNM

Light Rail makes no sense here right now when there is already a viable alternative. It is simply not a good economic decision - it is political. There are better things to spend the money on. An arena is in the same category.

Let me clarify that I am referring to the proposed Central Ave light rail. I am not opposed to public transportation, and have stated numerous times that I would support increased fuel taxes to fund it. I just want it to be useful. To spend millions building light rail on Central Ave which is already served by Rapid Ride is foolish when so many other areas are without adequate transportation. If anything, Coors / Paseo is a better candidate from Cottonwood to Coors/Paseo east to I-25 to Jefferson / Renissance to Downtown. Maybe a nice big transfer station at Cottonwood.

[bradly]

Originally Posted by Shmikker

i agree if we dont do it (arena, light rail a future!) then el paso or tuscon will i am beginning to loose confidence in the city, its taking too long and every one's anti growth talk is depressing. there is a DEMAND! do you know what that means? it means people are willing and want to pay for these things.

Why should we have to prove anything to you or to El Paso or Tucson?

First off look at the comparisons. No one get offended!
Tucson and El Paso's Freeway system blows, look at ours.
Tucson and El Paso dont have larger Highrises than us, were getting two more way larger than both, are will be tallest at 40 at 550ft .
Were Expected to pass tucson in population really soon we stand at 526,899 they stand at 527,566.
Were the second fastest growing city in this country, so thats GROWTH.. were going faster than the both.
Were a affordable home city, the two dont stand on that, were #4 for buisness on forbes there not! were on America’s Most Literate Cities and lists that they arent on.
They dont have arenas they will wont be planning for one for quite sometime either, were closer to an arena then they are, and light rail its a get go for the green, but the city is just spending so much money on other things, dont worry we will have light rail before 2010.
Albuquerque is doing fine without a arena we have a few and a concert center as well, studies for a better one should be taken, people that complain about arenas.. should attend the city council meetings to encourage them.

[Rob Martinez]

Originally Posted by bradly

Why should we have to prove anything to you or to El Paso or Tucson?

First off look at the comparisons. No one get offended!
Tucson and El Paso's Freeway system blows, look at ours.
Tucson and El Paso dont have larger Highrises than us, were getting two more way larger than both, are will be tallest at 40 at 550ft .
Were Expected to pass tucson in population really soon we stand at 526,899 they stand at 527,566.
Were the second fastest growing city in this country, so thats GROWTH.. were going faster than the both.
Were a affordable home city, the two dont stand on that, were #4 for buisness on forbes there not! were on America’s Most Literate Cities and lists that they arent on.
They dont have arenas they will wont be planning for one for quite sometime either, were closer to an arena then they are, and light rail its a get go for the green, but the city is just spending so much money on other things, dont worry we will have light rail before 2010.
Albuquerque is doing fine without a arena we have a few and a concert center as well, studies for a better one should be taken, people that complain about arenas.. should attend the city council meetings to encourage them.

What 40 story tower are you talking about exactly? And I don't mean some pie in the sky idea that is never going to actually happen, I mean something that will ACTUALLY be constructed, say, within two years.

There have been 30 and 40 story buildings discussed for Albuquerque for DECADES, and none have happened, just like arenas.

[bradly]

Well i posted these in the Streetcar thread, and i had em in my doc's so id thought id share with the beautiful citizens of this city

Were gettin one along Central Blvd to the airport, and Maybe Coors Blvd in Albuquerque

[bradly]

Originally Posted by Rob Martinez

What 40 story tower are you talking about exactly? And I don't mean some pie in the sky idea that is never going to actually happen, I mean something that will ACTUALLY be constructed, say, within two years.

There have been 30 and 40 story buildings discussed for Albuquerque for DECADES, and none have happened, just like arenas.

What are you talking about, sorry i dont mean this in a mean way..

however, the blue dot corp just let out there plans for the Residences at Packard place a year ago, it hasnt been that long.. so i really dont know where the "decades" is coming from.. it was a APPROVED by the city council a couple months back, it is going to be a 40 story high rise standing at 500-550ft on the corner of gold and 6th, it will be for residential and commercial use, a mall on the first 3 stories..ground breaking starts in may of 09 come check it out for your self