Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Center City Philadelphia also has subway lines, light rail, and a massive convention center. I'm not sure if it's comparable. And the subway links downtown to the sports complex. The major think about the ABQ events center is it will add convention space. Without new convention space, Albuquerque can't compete. That's why i'm FOR the events center. We desperately need new meeting space and hotel space. Conventions bring $$$$$ and we'll lose out if we can't attract them. I don't think anyone would support the events center myself included if it did not complement the convention center and make ABQ a much more viable events destination. It's not just an arena project, it's scope is larger than that. Unless they changed the plans without telling me, that is.
Center City Philadelphia also has subway lines, light rail, and a massive convention center. I'm not sure if it's comparable. And the subway links downtown to the sports complex.
I was kind of cheating with that answer, I admit, but abqdwell didn't specify that it had to be comparable. (The convention center, though, is relatively new. The downtown area was already quite vital before that came along.)
I just am not convinced a stadium or massive arena are required for a downtown to grow, even in this particular part of the country, and I really don't think they'd boost the growth of Albuquerque's downtown as a residential area, or as an area for business offices.
Please cite some sources for your broad generalizations. Also, please provide an example of a vital, sustainable downtown that does not have a sizable arena or baseball stadium. Thanks.
Denver: Mile high stadium is 3mi away (about the distance to Central & Washington in Albuq.). Pepsi center is about 2.5mi away (about the distance to Central & Carlisle in Albuq.).
Colorado Springs: World arena is 4.4mi away (about the distance to the Fairgrounds).
Hey Mike,
I lived in DC both before and after MCI Center and the Redskins suburban stadium FedEx Field. MCI Center has been a catalyst for economic growth: "While largely considered a commercial success, the Verizon Center was the catalyst that led to gentrification of Washington's Chinatown, with rent increases after construction of the Arena forcing many small Chinese businesses to close. On the other hand, the Arena is not only a popular venue for sports and concerts, but helped to turn "Gallery Place/Chinatown" neighborhood into one of the prime sites for commercial development in Washington."
Fed Ex Field has been a success to Dan Snyder and the Skins but not much else, but it was privately built. BTW: there's an interest on the part of DC and Dan Snyder to move the team back to the district (I'll let you do the googling on all of these claims). I get that DC is not a peer city but you did use a DC based response.
Apartment Nomad
I would not describe Philadelphia as a vibrant downtown; plus it's hardly a peer city. Center City is interesting and has shown signs of life but I would not describe it as vibrant (I was recently there). Plus it is heavily subsidized Philadelphia Tax Breaks Draw Ire (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124259487721327971.htm - broken link)
Zoidberg,
What role do you think the Rockies ballpark played in the success of downtown Denver? Also, would Denver's downtown be as vibrant without the light rail to the stadiums you mention? Haven't been to Colorado Springs recently so I can't say if it's vibrant. I can say that I was in downtown Boise on the night of a minor league hockey game and the stadiums and bars around the downtown arena (which was connected to a hotel) were pretty packed.
Hey, at least we have the Friday, Saturday and Sunday night cruisers. I'm sure that will draw lots of tourism, conventions and economic development. Don't forget the bar fights.
Apartment Nomad
I would not describe Philadelphia as a vibrant downtown; plus it's hardly a peer city. Center City is interesting and has shown signs of life but I would not describe it as vibrant (I was recently there). Plus it is heavily subsidized
Philadelphia has a lot of problems but to say that it's downtown is not vibrant is simply laughable. (I lived in or very near to Center City Philadelphia for almost twenty years.) I don't know what your yardstick can possibly be, seriously. It just boggles the mind. Dense residential sections; skyscrapers packed with offices; government offices; upscale restaurants, mid-range ethnic eateries, hotdog and pretzel stands; chain and independent bookstores; bars of various sorts; night-clubs; universities; art galleries; street preachers; political demonstrations; small produce stores; a CVS on every other corner (must be somebody keeping them in business, right?), etc., etc.
What do you think of Manhattan? Would you consider it vibrant?
Last edited by ApartmentNomad; 06-12-2010 at 04:31 PM..
perhaps the old abq downs would be a good place for an arena? dang i really liked the rendering of that hotel... sadness
i hate seeing the failure of the city to develop anything cool dt..
its getting really old, look what happened to Anasazi. its not the cities fault that the bank went under but they should have been on someones a** to finish the project and not leave a rotting steal eyesore in the middle of the city.
Denver: Mile high stadium is 3mi away (about the distance to Central & Washington in Albuq.). Pepsi center is about 2.5mi away (about the distance to Central & Carlisle in Albuq.).
Colorado Springs: World arena is 4.4mi away (about the distance to the Fairgrounds).
Coors Field is in downtown Denver, plus the Pepsi Center is basically downtown, I walked from 16th street to the Pepsi Center and it felt really quick, it didnt feel like I walked 2.5 miles, but most stadiums arnt exactly in the middle of downtown but they are basically downtown.
I was kind of cheating with that answer, I admit, but abqdwell didn't specify that it had to be comparable. (The convention center, though, is relatively new. The downtown area was already quite vital before that came along.)
I just am not convinced a stadium or massive arena are required for a downtown to grow, even in this particular part of the country, and I really don't think they'd boost the growth of Albuquerque's downtown as a residential area, or as an area for business offices.
well a downtown arena might be a good start, apparently as it is now, people arnt exactly flocking to downtown, wether it be to visit or live, and business isnt booming downtown either, something needs to happen to spice up downtown.
I get that DC is not a peer city but you did use a DC based response.
Actually, I didn't... I used an ALEXANDRIA based response. I'm quite aware of MCI Arena
and have attended several events there, but I'm not so sure I would give the Arena the
same credit / blame that you do.
I'm old enough that I remember when F & H Streets between 10th and 16th were THE
primary shopping district for the entire Metro area. The suburban shopping centers
really hurt that and then the 68 riots absolutely killed off DC's central area for anyone
other than government and for decades it was a ghost town after 6pm.
It took a lot of FEDERAL funds to reverse the rapid deterioration and IMHO, the
actual business influx has not been the result of either the Convention Center nor
MCI Arena but the sheer lack of other places to grow in the surrounding Northwest
areas of 16th Street, Connecticut Avenue, K Street, M street, etc., etc.
Retail, dining, fashion and art all depend on proximity to each other and it was this
growth on the outer edges that back-filled into and destroyed what had been a
remarkably vibrant Chinatown.
I do not see that as being a particularly Good Thing.
So what does the typical suburbanite do when he / she / they go to the arena?
They drive in, park nearby or at the arena itself, maybe have a drink to kill time,
see the game and then leave. They're basically a second shift of commuters coming
in after the daytime workers have gone.
Aside from the direct tax revenue generated by the arena, it does NOTHING
for the local community. Stadiums are only a good thing when you have no other
viable use for an area and, once emplaced, severely limit the potential for sustainable
urban living.
the biggest problem with living downtown is property crime. i live downtown. fortunately, i have a garage. but the streets are littered with broken glass from break ins. i live next to the high school lofts and there's still glass on the street from when someone broke the windows of every single car on the streets around the high school. probably 100 cars.
that said, i don't think a downtown arena would be much of a draw to live here. bigger cities have major professional teams with passionate fans. i don't see that here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
