Will there ever be a pro sports team in ABQ? (Albuquerque: house, company)

[salcisne]

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Soccer Trends Group

[AndyJ]

Originally Posted by abqsunport

That interesting, because when I checked your source, I found that Albuquerque was the 61st Largest MSA. I also found that Detroit was only the 10th largest metro. Miami, D.C. and ATL are all larger . my source : Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I certainly won't say that's outside the realm of possibility. The source I looked at was the Federal Communications Commission, and I'm inclined to think that government statistics are as accurate as any, but particularly when you take immigration into account, who knows what the actual numbers really are. Also, El Paso is without any pro sports team and has a large population (larger than Albuquerque's, actually), but the issue there is how many people will drive to here from there just to see a game. Maybe a lot, because many people in this region have family in both cities and/or other reasons they spend time in both places. Again, who knows for sure.

It's not like I am vehemently against Albuquerque having a pro sports team, and I certainly don't cringe at every speculation that a team may be looking here. If we could successfully support a team it would be GREAT for central New Mexico, and a boost to our already strong tourism. But what are we going to do for a stadium? People before have suggested Rio Rancho, but that would be an infrastructural (had to make sure this was actually a word ) nightmare because there are no freeways there. So where in Albuquerque? I honestly don't think that there aren't at least a few ingenious stadium architects and planners that would be able to come up with something. So in short, although I don't by any means see it as the end of the world either way, a pro team would be great for the city and the state as long as it would be sufficiently supported. Case in point, the Seattle Supersonics are leaving to OKC because of notorious bad attendance. If we could avoid that here, then I do think a pro team might be feasible in 5-10 years, at the current rates of growth. For now, there isn't much that those of us not involved with the industry can do, so we'll just have to sit back and see.

[abqsunport]

It's not like I am vehemently against Albuquerque having a pro sports team, and I certainly don't cringe at every speculation that a team may be looking here. If we could successfully support a team it would be GREAT for central New Mexico, and a boost to our already strong tourism. But what are we going to do for a stadium? People before have suggested Rio Rancho, but that would be an infrastructural (had to make sure this was actually a word ) nightmare because there are no freeways there. So where in Albuquerque? I honestly don't think that there aren't at least a few ingenious stadium architects and planners that would be able to come up with something. So in short, although I don't by any means see it as the end of the world either way, a pro team would be great for the city and the state as long as it would be sufficiently supported. Case in point, the Seattle Supersonics are leaving to OKC because of notorious bad attendance. If we could avoid that here, then I do think a pro team might be feasible in 5-10 years, at the current rates of growth. For now, there isn't much that those of us not involved with the industry can do, so we'll just have to sit back and see.

Yeah, I absolutly see your point. Maybe a sports stadium where Mesa Del Sol is being developed? Or maybe Tingley could be demoed and a new stadium could be erected. Possible, way out west off of Paseo Del Volcan? Hmm...I am sure there is some place. I have a hard time believing OKC will be able to support a team more so than Seattle, but heh, we will see what happens.

Originally Posted by AndyJ

Also, El Paso is without any pro sports team and has a large population (larger than Albuquerque's, actually), but the issue there is how many people will drive to here from there just to see a game.

Actually Not quite. Albuquerque's MSA is 816,811 and El Paso's MSA is 736,310. However, you are right that El Paso city limits are larger.

I really do believe a lot of people would make the trek from El Paso, Las Cruces, Santa Fe, etc. to Albuquerque to watch a sports team. A year or two ago, the governor was trying to get an NFL team that would be shared between Albuquerque, El Paso, and Mexico. Obviously that wouldn't be feasible, but heh it was an interesting idea.

[DCTalk]

I'll have agree with _yb and totally disagree with wildfan. I've happened to have lived only in cities thus far that are large enough to have had pro sports teams. In some cases a city I've lived in would actually lose or gain a franchise over the years. One, I don't think ABQ is large enough to support a major sports team right now (by major I mean MLB or NFL). It certainly could support lesser sports teams like the WNBA or MLS, but I question the continued viability of those leagues. But New Mexico is not a wealthy state, and to tax people to build a stadium for a wealthy franchise owner's benefit does not make sense. Various studies have been done on the return on investments that cities have done when they fund these stadiums and pay the NFL for the franchise fees at taxpayer expense, and the returns have never panned out to be justifiable. My old home town of St. Louis got soaked by the NFL to get the Rams. Yes, having a team is a source of civic pride, but at quite a cost. What the studies have consistently found is a city is better off investing in education, liveability and infrastructure to stimulate job growth. The return on investment and growth in the tax base is much greater than "investing" in a sports team.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Chaparral

As far as Albuquerque's NFL prospects go, we are probably looking at the 10-20 year estimate that observe mentions. But if you look at the list of top 55 DMA's that currently do not have an NFL franchise (or one nearby) ABQ (#46) is not in terrible shape. Also keep in mind that Jacksonville is ranked #52.

# 2 - Los Angeles: as finmqa1 states, the NFL is dying to get back into this market. And Gov. Arnold actually has gone on record to say that he would like to see LA get two new teams. But it still remains to be seen if the city itself wants the NFL back. LA just doesn't seem to miss the NFL. LA's lack of desire is a definite boon to other potential cities.

#23 - Portland, OR: this would seem to be an obvious front-runner, given its size and Oregon's love of football. But it may not be that simple, as a new team would require a new stadium and that would be no gimme, given Portland's political climate. And the Seahawks could fight the placement of a team here as well.

#36 - Salt Lake City: can't say much here other than SLC seems to be in a similar situation to ABQ, but has the advantage of having proved that it can successfully support an NBA franchise.

#37 San Antonio or #53 Austin: I group these two together because I can't see the NFL awarding both cities franchises, due to their proximity. If one gets a team, it will be at the expense of the other city. Plenty of money here, but I know the Cowboys weren't crazy about the idea of the Saints moving to SA. They and the Texans could potentially fight placement here.

#40 - Birmingham, AL: they definitely love their football in 'Bama, but the Falcons and/or Titans could fight the placement of a team here.

#42 - Norfolk, VA: Pretty sure the Redskins (and possibly the Ravens) would fight placement of a team here.

#45 - Oklahoma City, OK: Another city with similarities to SLC, and they have also shown they can support a top level franchise. The Cowboys might fight this one as well.

#48 - Las Vegas: As long as there is sports gambling in Vegas, I have a hard time seeing the NFL setting up shop here. But that may just be me.

Additionally, every city above (with the possible exception of LA) would need to build a new stadium to house a franchise. This is a pill may municipalities simply won't swallow. And ABQ may be one of them.

But if we keep growing, this could definitely be a topic of discussion sooner, rather than later!

Chap

You mentioned that Austin and San Antonio wouldn't be awarded NFL teams at the same time due to proximity. Look at the Bay Area. The 49's play in SF and the Raiders play in Oakland(the Raiders were in Anaheim once, pretty close the the LA Rams.).
ABQ might be able to support an NBA team if it can build an arean fast enough. Geographically, the only 2 NBA teams it would have to compete with are the Phoenix Suns and the Denver Nuggets and the nearest Texas team is even further away(Dallas Mavericks).

[Chaparral]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

You mentioned that Austin and San Antonio wouldn't be awarded NFL teams at the same time due to proximity. Look at the Bay Area. The 49's play in SF and the Raiders play in Oakland(the Raiders were in Anaheim once, pretty close the the LA Rams.).

Apples and oranges, in respect to the situations you describe. Oakland and SF came into existence by way of two separate leagues (AFL/NFL) and in a drastically different era. The dollar values associated with football franchises/markets back then are dwarfed by current numbers. The Raiders played in L.A., but never Anaheim. And it took a whole lotta legal fighting to get that to happen.

The NFL would never open themselves up to that again voluntarily. Nowadays, any owner locating a team to the area would require assurances that another team would not be placed within a certain radius of his base of operations.

Also, I'd like to update my previous post...

Updated (2008) DMA sizes for cities mentioned above:
# 2 Los Angeles, CA
#23 Portland, OR
#35 Salt Lake City, UT
#37 San Antonio, TX & #51 Austin, TX
#40 Birmingham, AL
#42 Norfolk, VA
#43 Las Vegas, NV
#44 Albuquerque, NM
#45 Oklahoma City, OK
#49 Jacksonville, FL

Additionally, another poster in another forum pointed something out that I had failed to notice regarding the SLC NFL market. The strong Mormon tradition of not playing games on Sundays could be a virtual deal breaker for any placement of an NFL team there.

Chap

[6/3]

Originally Posted by Chaparral

Updated (2008) DMA sizes for cities mentioned above:
# 2 Los Angeles, CA
#23 Portland, OR
#35 Salt Lake City, UT
#37 San Antonio, TX & #51 Austin, TX
#40 Birmingham, AL
#42 Norfolk, VA
#43 Las Vegas, NV
#44 Albuquerque, NM
#45 Oklahoma City, OK
#49 Jacksonville, FL

Chap.....
Thats a good list of cities without teams except Jax on that list. I really wish the NFL would have an NFL II that would play in the spring like the USFL in the 80's and have it in large metros that have no teams as i think that would be cool to have. Maybe the NFL II southwest division would have these cities..

Southwest Division
Albuquerque
El Paso
Tucson
Colorado Springs
Salt Lake City

Anyway just a thought.

[observe]

Originally Posted by 6 FOOT 3

Chap.....
Thats a good list of cities without teams except Jax on that list. I really wish the NFL would have an NFL II that would play in the spring like the USFL in the 80's and have it in large metros that have no teams as i think that would be cool to have. Maybe the NFL II southwest division would have these cities..

Southwest Division
Albuquerque
El Paso
Tucson
Colorado Springs
Salt Lake City

Anyway just a thought.

That would be a good idea, however I think AFL and AF2 fill that void. There just isn't enough talent to field an NFL II the drop off in talent would be substantial, with the AFL & AF2 picking up the second teir players.

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by Chaparral

Apples and oranges, in respect to the situations you describe. Oakland and SF came into existence by way of two separate leagues (AFL/NFL) and in a drastically different era. The dollar values associated with football franchises/markets back then are dwarfed by current numbers. The Raiders played in L.A., but never Anaheim. And it took a whole lotta legal fighting to get that to happen.

The NFL would never open themselves up to that again voluntarily. Nowadays, any owner locating a team to the area would require assurances that another team would not be placed within a certain radius of his base of operations.

Also, I'd like to update my previous post...

Updated (2008) DMA sizes for cities mentioned above:
# 2 Los Angeles, CA
#23 Portland, OR
#35 Salt Lake City, UT
#37 San Antonio, TX & #51 Austin, TX
#40 Birmingham, AL
#42 Norfolk, VA
#43 Las Vegas, NV
#44 Albuquerque, NM
#45 Oklahoma City, OK
#49 Jacksonville, FL

Additionally, another poster in another forum pointed something out that I had failed to notice regarding the SLC NFL market. The strong Mormon tradition of not playing games on Sundays could be a virtual deal breaker for any placement of an NFL team there.

Chap

Your metropolitan populations are all Bogus Albuquerque Is Not Lager Than Oklahoma City And jacksonville FL. And Neither Is Birmingham Alabama...Oklahoma City Has A 1,200,000 metropolitan Area And Birmingham Has A 1,100,000 Metro Area.

[observe]

Originally Posted by Howest2008

Your metropolitan populations are all Bogus Albuquerque Is Not Lager Than Oklahoma City And jacksonville FL. And Neither Is Birmingham Alabama...Oklahoma City Has A 1,200,000 metropolitan Area And Birmingham Has A 1,100,000 Metro Area.

The list is not metro size it's the Media Market or TV market.