ABQ RIDE poll 3 of 4: Who should be the manufacturer of ABQ RIDE's next bus order? (Dora: buying)

[Pink Jazz]

Here is my third of the ABQ RIDE polls: Who should be the manufacturer of ABQ RIDE's next bus order?

I think ABQ RIDE should stick with New Flyer since they are reliable.

[mortimer]

I already posted my opinion on this here.

Taxpayer money should not be used to finance jobs overseas.

The busses should be dual-sourced - at a minimum and manufacturers
should be required to guarantee a certain level of uptime and mtbf.

[Zoidberg]

Had no idea this series of polls would evoke so many complicated issues, like protectionism vs. lowest bidderism.

I'll take the contrary position. If Canadians are better at building buses at low prices than Americans, I say give them the contract. I get the benefit of not subsidizing ineffective American management and less taxes I have to pay for buses. Canadians are better at providing cheap lumber, regional jets, and hockey players than American factories. Since we're not too proud to sell them our big rig lumber trucks, jumbo jets, and network sports coverage, trade encourages efficient operations and more jobs on either side of the border.

China's a little different, but not as much as most think. What are the Chinese buying? American companies. I have a softer spot in my heart for a foreigner who employs Americans than an American who employs foreigners.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

... Canadians ... China's a little different, ...

I consider jobs in Canada to be the same as jobs for Americans.
The same goes for Mexico - less sneaking across the border.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

...What are the Chinese buying? American companies.
I have a softer spot in my heart for a foreigner who employs
Americans than an American who employs foreigners.

If you persuse my referenced post, I specified I prefer built by American labor with parts
built by American labor. I agree, that having the label - say - G.E. means nothing to me
since they now employ more people overseas than here. Some Fords, GM cars have more
foreign content than Toyotas and Hondas.

Since you missed that bit, I'll repeat it here"
Replacement busses should be sourced from suppliers operating their
assembly lines in the United States using parts that are in the vast
majority also sourced in the United States.
Note that I did not say "American Suppliers" as in "American companies"
like Apple, or Dell, who do no manufacturing here any more.

getting back to this:

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

...What are the Chinese buying? American companies.

Correction: They are buying American technology and knowhow.

The Japanese - who manipulated their currency and maintained an artificially high
trade surplus with us for decades - have a real need to build factories here and
teach their technology to us in order to maintain their high level of quality.

The Chinese, under no circumstances, have any need to buy an American
company for any other reason than to disassemble it and ship it to China.

Use your own money to buy the best product. I'm for it. It is one reason
that automobiles have turned into such start-it-and-forget-it products.

Use taxpayer money to buy American-built stuff if at all possible.

It's really like a Far Side cartoon. You just have to "get it." I don't know how to explain it.

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Some Fords, GM cars have more
foreign content than Toyotas and Hondas.

I'd go so far as to say most do.

The Chinese, under no circumstances, have any need to buy an American
company for any other reason than to disassemble it and ship it to China.

Check this out then.

It's really like a Far Side cartoon. You just have to "get it." I don't know how to explain it.

We're both reasonably intelligent people.. when explanations fail to get your point across, perhaps it's not the listener's shortcoming.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Check this out then.

Anecdotal.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

We're both reasonably intelligent people.. when explanations fail to
get your point across, perhaps it's not the listener's shortcoming.

Have you ever tried to explain a Far Side cartoon to someone who doesn't get it?

I couldn't begin to explain why most of those LOL cartoons ( when it
really WAS a LOL cartoon ) was funny. I just expect people to get it.

When you take taxpayer money and send it to China to save a few percent, I just
expect others to be just as offended. I don't know where to go when they are not.

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Anecdotal.

Anecdotal > Under no circumstances.

[Pink Jazz]

Just to remind everyone, NONE of the listed manufacturers are from China or overseas. The FTA has Buy America laws that require bus assembly to be at least 60% in the United States. While New Flyer, Orion, and Nova Bus are Canadian companies, most of their assembly for the United States is within the United States, putting Americans at work. If that isn't good enough, just vote for Gillig, NABI, or ElDorado.

[Pink Jazz]

BTW, anyone who votes "Other" is pretty much voting FOR an overseas manufacturer, since there are no other domestic manufacturers of heavy-duty transit buses.