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Old 03-08-2015, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
1,663 posts, read 3,683,908 times
Reputation: 1984

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
Wikipedia says 19000 is the threshold for 2 lanes in each direction. Your MRCOG chart shows 31200 vehicles in front of the university, which is where the median lanes are proposed and where the problems would be worst.
The plan does not take any lanes away from cars in front of the university.

http://img16.imagefra.me/i938/do05_bf9_u1.jpg

As you can see in the cross sections, the current bus lane is converted into a driving lane. One of the current driving lanes is converted into a bus lane and the median is converted into a bus lane. This maintains 2 full lanes in each direction (status quo) for personal vehicles as well as on street parking on the south side of central.

The 19,000 figure from Wikipedia is referring to a road with a single lane in each direction with a center turn lane. The BRT proposal in front of UNM has two driving lanes for personal vehicles in each direction and can easily accomodate 31,200 cars.


Quote:
The numbers don't back you up on either claim. Taking 10000 cars off Central in front of the University would be necessary. Lomas is already exceeding 30000 vehicles east of downtown.
Lomas, having 3 travel lanes in each direction in most places, can accommodate many thousand more trips per day.
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,141,617 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey View Post
The plan does not take any lanes away from cars in front of the university.

http://img16.imagefra.me/i938/do05_bf9_u1.jpg

As you can see in the cross sections, the current bus lane is converted into a driving lane. One of the current driving lanes is converted into a bus lane and the median is converted into a bus lane. This maintains 2 full lanes in each direction (status quo) for personal vehicles as well as on street parking on the south side of central.
Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe I've been convinced.

I especially like how they've renamed Monte Vista Blvd Buena Vista Blvd. in that graphic.

Odd that they propose 12' wide lanes, when 10' is safer.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
707 posts, read 741,395 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
Odd that they propose 12' wide lanes, when 10' is safer.


Thanks. Good read. The article correctly mentions the phenomenon he (or his friend) described is directly proportional to speed. For collectors up to about 35mph 10' makes sense, for a 45-55mph arterial, 12' is best, and for a 65+ mph freeway, well, it's obvious why a <12' roadway for two-way traffic wouldn't work (US-66 Tucamcari-Glenrio, anyone?). But between wavy New Mexican drivers and our idiot pedestrians-the so called "limited cases"- I suppose roadway width will always be a tradeoff between driver and pedestrian safety.
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Old 03-08-2015, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
1,741 posts, read 2,604,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM View Post
Reconnecting the downtown grid is also a part of the Innovate Albuquerque plan the last time I read those plans, including rebuilding copper across the tracks.
Excuse me for going off-topic, but I just wanted to clarify something about this. Copper Avenue never went across the tracks. The railroad wasn't like I-25 or I-40 in slicing through the existing urban grid and fabric of central Albuquerque.

Instead, Downtown was laid out, planned and built up because of the railroad. The streets and crossings were built with it in mind. Most of the avenues west of the railroad ended at 1st Street and never crossed the tracks. East of the tracks many of the avenues of the grid didn't really exist west of Broadway. The area between Broadway and the tracks was always more industrial than the area west of the tracks and east of 1st Street. John Street and Commercial Street existed as north-south streets connecting various smaller offshoots of avenues named and located along the the same grid alignment but discontinuous with their counterparts west of the tracks downtown.

I imagine from the time the "New Town" of Albuquerque was laid out in the 1880s until the 1930s when the underpasses for Central Avenue and Tijeras were built most of the crossings of the railroad downtown were at-grade. Coal Avenue crossed over the railroad tracks by way of a viaduct but I'm not certain when it was built. I believe it was probably in the 1910s or 1920s and I'm quite certain it was before the underpasses were built. Either way, I know that the viaduct was ancient when it was completely replaced and rebuilt in the early to mid-1990s with a modern overpass. I'm also certain the overpass for Lead Avenue wasn't built until the two streets were first conceived as one-way pairs, probably in the late 1950s to sometime in the 1960s.


The biggest disruption to the existing grid downtown also came around the time of the one-way conversions of downtown streets and with other Urban Renewal programs in the 1960s and continued all the way until the East Complex of the Convention Center was built in the early 1990s. That was when Gold and Copper were connected to Central with sweeping curves just after the underpass and when the old Greyhound bus station was built, necessitating the vacation of one block of Silver Avenue from 1st to 2nd.

When the Convention Center was expanded to the east the old twin overpasses (which were probably built in the 1970s) connecting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Ave (formerly Grand Avenue) with the one-way pairs of Marquette and Tijeras were modified and tweaked to instead carry only Marquette and also provide access to the Convention Center's new parking garage. That was when Tijeras to Martin Luther King eastbound changed from going over to under the railroad tracks. A newer, wider and deeper underpass was built next to the old 1930s underpass for traffic going east and the old, smaller underpass was retained for traffic going west from Commercial Street to 2nd Street.

1st Street was completely lost from Marquette to Central Avenue for the Convention Center expansion and subsequently replaced with a short stub between the Copper Avenue curve and the new Tijeras/Martin Luther King alignments.

This whole area west of the tracks had steadily been changing from its original grid/street layout and had already lost much of its old buildings, which included Albuquerque's old City Hall. Everything from the building of Civic Plaza to the original Convention Center (today's West Complex) and the First Plaza building brought about these changes. By the 1970s 1st Street still existed between the Copper curve and Marquette but it had lost its old structures and was mainly a driveway for the Convention Center's original parking lots.

Here are four old pictures of the area which show the progression from about the 1940s to the 1970s. As you can see, Copper Avenue never crossed the tracks...
Attached Thumbnails
BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-albuquerque-downtown-aerial-1940s.jpg   BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-albuquerque-downtown-aerial-postcard-circa-1950s.jpg   BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-albuquerque-downtown-aerial-circa-1952.jpg   BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-albuquerque-downtown-aerial-postcard-circa-1970s.jpg  
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Old 03-08-2015, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
707 posts, read 741,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQalex View Post
This whole area west of the tracks had steadily been changing from its original grid/street layout and had already lost much of its old buildings, which included Albuquerque's old City Hall. ...
Which one is the old city hall? Where did it stand?
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
1,741 posts, read 2,604,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kehkou View Post
Which one is the old city hall? Where did it stand?
The old City Hall stood at the southwest corner of Tijeras Avenue and 2nd St. It wasn't a very grand building, though. I believe it was built in the 1910s or 1920s.

The grandest buildings which stood in that area were the old YMCA and the Korber Building. The old YMCA was at the northeast corner of 1st Street and Central Avenue and the Korber Building was at the northeast corner of Copper Avenue and 2nd Street.

Here are pictures of all three buildings...
Attached Thumbnails
BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-albuquerque-old-city-hall-postcard.jpg   BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-albuquerque-ymca.jpg   BRT - Bus Rapid Transit on Central, a Study-korber-building.jpg  
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:13 AM
 
520 posts, read 605,675 times
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Great posts, Alex. Thanks for the history.
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
1,663 posts, read 3,683,908 times
Reputation: 1984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe I've been convinced.

I especially like how they've renamed Monte Vista Blvd Buena Vista Blvd. in that graphic.

Odd that they propose 12' wide lanes, when 10' is safer.
Buena Vista is a different street. It's the north-south street at the far left on the graphic.

And yes, I to am wondering why they chose to keep 12 foot lanes throughout much of the project. I assume maybe they're just trying to keep costs down by not having to add bike lanes or widen sidewalks too much.

I should also note that there are portions of the project, through Nob Hill and west from University that will be 1 travel lane in each direction, but they already have lower traffic counts. The DOT suggests roads on a diet can handle up to 23,000 vehicles per day Road Diet Informational Guide - Safety | Federal Highway Administration

Last edited by funkymonkey; 03-09-2015 at 12:50 AM..
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Old 03-09-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,765 posts, read 37,673,521 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApartmentNomad View Post
And how similar are those cities to Albuquerque in cultural and socioeconomic terms? I am not very familiar with Canada, but my guess would be that these cities are quite different from Albuquerque.
Not quite sure how to answer this with what you are looking for but both Ottawa and Quebec City are capital cities with a significant amount of government and public sector employment. As such there is likely more concerted planning for employment nodes than in a place like Albuqerque, and also many people work predictable Monday-Friday office hours.
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Old 03-09-2015, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,141,617 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey View Post
Buena Vista is a different street. It's the north-south street at the far left on the graphic.
Of course it's a different street, and yes, I know where Buena Vista DRIVE is. Look on the far right side of the graphic to see what I'm talking about.

In another bit of trivia, Buena Vista Ave NW is in Paradise Hills. You don't usually see two streets with the same name and nothing else in common in Albuquerque.
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