Tough Decision - Albuquerque or Denver? (Las Cruces, Santa Fe: rentals, headhunters, job market)

[yukon]

Yeah, I know, all y'all are going to say "Albuquerque!" I just spent 4 days in Denver (never been there) and I must say, it was pretty impressive. It's now a tie between ABQ and DEN. Phoenix, as much as I love it, moved to 3rd place.

ABQ wins hands down over DEN in the air quality category. DEN wins in the job market. ABQ has better rental prices. DEN has better public transit. ABQ has milder winters. DEN has better shopping.

See what I mean? Joking aside - the shopping and winter weather really aren't that important (as long as it's sunny, I don't care if it's cold or hot). Moving to either place will require a major lifestyle change, but that's good thing and something I want. Both areas have good long-term prospects for me, although each offers a different path (also ok).

It's the job market that bothers me in ABQ. The ABQ employer makeup is so similar to where I lived in the FL panhandle (government contracts, military base and service jobs) that I'm afraid I'm letting my bias color my opinion of the ABQ market. Working those 2 years in the panhandle were two of the worst years of my working life, and I hesitate to do it again.

So....someone want to reassure me that the ABQ market is diverse and strong? That Intel layoffs won't bring down the city? And anyone know any headhunters or recruiters out there I could call for some more info?

Sigh. Choosing between right and wrong is easy. It's the choices between two goods that are tough, KWIM?

[mortimer]

I moved to Albuquerque *on purpose* to take whatever job I could
get and I'm not leaving. I spent a couple of years in California -
pining to be back here. Then I spent seven years in Phoenix wishing
for a September where the temperatures were in the 80's (for the high,
not the morning low).

Life's too short to live where you don't want to live. Unless I'm making
200% of what I'm worth, I'm not leaving ever again. I'll work at the
7-11 or whatever before I prevent myself from being able to hike the
La Luz trail whenever I darn well please.

That being said, Denver is a very nice city.

(note the proper use of "myself" in the sentence above)

[Towanda]

Denver is a nice city, but the traffic there is horrendous. I would not want to live there.

[yukon]

Traffic isn't an issue with me. I'm used to driving in Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta and New Orleans (pre-Katrina) Driving in Denver & Phoenix this summer was pure bliss. Seriously. I'm thinking of staying in FL now a few months longer than originally planned, so I can have more in savings when I move. Then, the immediate job market won't matter. But geez, 4 more months of mold and humidity? Ack!

I must admit, rentals in ABQ are affordable enough that a pay cut wouldn't be a problem. I just looked at rental rates here and they aren't going down, despite the housing market.

[tangerinepuddle]

Originally Posted by yukon

Yeah, I know, all y'all are going to say "Albuquerque!" I just spent 4 days in Denver (never been there) and I must say, it was pretty impressive. It's now a tie between ABQ and DEN. Phoenix, as much as I love it, moved to 3rd place.

ABQ wins hands down over DEN in the air quality category. DEN wins in the job market. ABQ has better rental prices. DEN has better public transit. ABQ has milder winters. DEN has better shopping.

See what I mean? Joking aside - the shopping and winter weather really aren't that important (as long as it's sunny, I don't care if it's cold or hot). Moving to either place will require a major lifestyle change, but that's good thing and something I want. Both areas have good long-term prospects for me, although each offers a different path (also ok).

It's the job market that bothers me in ABQ. The ABQ employer makeup is so similar to where I lived in the FL panhandle (government contracts, military base and service jobs) that I'm afraid I'm letting my bias color my opinion of the ABQ market. Working those 2 years in the panhandle were two of the worst years of my working life, and I hesitate to do it again.

So....someone want to reassure me that the ABQ market is diverse and strong? That Intel layoffs won't bring down the city? And anyone know any headhunters or recruiters out there I could call for some more info?

Sigh. Choosing between right and wrong is easy. It's the choices between two goods that are tough, KWIM?

Why are you leaving FL? (besides mold and humidity?) I lived in Albuquerque for almost two years, moved there from NY. I am now in Portland, OR, but FL (specifically Tampa or Jax) is starting to sound good to me......(though I have alot of things to love out here!) - pm me if you want my take on Albuquerque, all the good and the bad.....and maybe you can return the favor and give me yours on FL?

[EnjoyEP]

I just lived for four years in ABQ. I moved back to Milwaukee, WI (my hometown) about a month ago...and I already tremendously miss ABQ! I am already thinking uh-oh...maybe I shouldn't have done this!

Having said that, all of my wife's family lives in Denver, and I go there multiple times a year. I really, really like Denver and think it is a neat city.

However, I far prefer Albuquerque. I will give you some primary reasons why:

1) The weather: You'll be surprised what a big difference there is in the weather between the two annually. There will be some days that there is no difference (and some Denver is actually warmer), but overall, 60 inches of snowfall average per year in the city of Denver and 10 in Albuquerque - huge difference. Gardening zone of 7 in ABQ / 5 in Denver. Even sunnier and drier in ABQ. I know you said that weather didn't make a huge difference to you, but I think between the two, it would be hard to overlook weather.

2) The culture: Albuquerque is still a quirky, unique place that has a whole individual history and culture that makes it so neat and distinct. The New Mexican culture (a blend of Spanish, Mexican, Native American, Anglo, and - well - New Mexico) is just so neat to be a part of. Meanwhile, Denver has gotten so big and mainstream that - while like any city it does have of course its own history and culture - overall, the city is just culturally more like "any big city USA".

3) The cost of living: You talk about jobs and it is true that Denver has a bigger job market due to its bigger size. However, also remember things like housing, gas, and overall cost of living are respectably higher in Denver, so while you may be getting paid more, you'll likely be pumping it right back into cost of living. I wouldn't move to either if I didn't have a job in advance, so if you'd get a job in Albuquerque, the smaller job market shouldn't really affect you too much. Plus, it is a booming / growing city and area...with that growth, the job market and economy grows continually too.

4) The size of the city: To me, Albuquerque is a perfect sized city - metro of 820,000 or so. Big enough to have most of everything that you need...small enough to not have the traffic, crowds, etc., that Denver has due to its size. You still get that "small town friendliness" in ABQ.

5) Central geography: All of these cities are less than 450 miles / 7 hour drive (and many far, far less) from Albuquerque:

-Denver
-Phoenix
-Tucson, AZ
-Santa Fe, NM
-Taos, NM
-Las Cruces, NM
-El Paso
-Colorado Springs, CO

So...you said that your 3rd choice was Phoenix? Well, in the heart of January, you're a 6 hour drive from a weekend in Phoenix. You love Denver still? You are a 6 hour jaunt away. You want some palm trees and great Mexican food? El Paso is a 4-hour drive...(wanna jump the border for a day? Mexico is a 4-hour drive).

Denver is great, but Albuquerque is one of the great places you could live in the US.

[mortimer]

EnjoyEP boasted(?)

> ... you're a 6 hour drive from a weekend in Phoenix.
> You love Denver still? You are a 6 hour jaunt away. ...

In order to make that drive, you need to *average* 75 mph,
making _no_stops_ for gasoline or urine.

Both drives are approximately 450 miles city-center to city-center.

Both drives have interesting alternate routes that are more fun
than just taking the interstate.

Unless you want to push it to 85 mph to make up for trucks, RV's,
construction, bathrooms, gasoline, etc, better allow for 8 hours.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by mortimer

EnjoyEP boasted(?)

> ... you're a 6 hour drive from a weekend in Phoenix.
> You love Denver still? You are a 6 hour jaunt away. ...

In order to make that drive, you need to *average* 75 mph,
making _no_stops_ for gasoline or urine.

Both drives are approximately 450 miles city-center to city-center.

Both drives have interesting alternate routes that are more fun
than just taking the interstate.

Unless you want to push it to 85 mph to make up for trucks, RV's,
construction, bathrooms, gasoline, etc, better allow for 8 hours.

The majority of I-25 between ABQ and Denver (or I-40 / I-17) between ABQ and PHX is very open/rural and has a 75 mph speed limit. While I am no speed demon, I will readily admit to setting my cruise at 80, 81 mph. Both are such short, easy drives, that really you only need one bathroom 10-minute stop which includes gas.

Sure, you can take leisurely routes or stop more - no problem. But all I am saying is that without lead footing it or going more than 5 miles over the speed limit, yes, 6 hours isn't out of the ordinary (in fact, I did it to both several times).

But the point really wasn't to bicker over a couple of hours. The point was that ABQ is central to, and a rather easy drive to, both the major cities of DEN and PHX.

[abqsunport]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

The majority of I-25 between ABQ and Denver (or I-40 / I-17) between ABQ and PHX is very open/rural and has a 75 mph speed limit. While I am no speed demon, I will readily admit to setting my cruise at 80, 81 mph. Both are such short, easy drives, that really you only need one bathroom 10-minute stop which includes gas.

Sure, you can take leisurely routes or stop more - no problem. But all I am saying is that without lead footing it or going more than 5 miles over the speed limit, yes, 6 hours isn't out of the ordinary (in fact, I did it to both several times).

But the point really wasn't to bicker over a couple of hours. The point was that ABQ is central to, and a rather easy drive to, both the major cities of DEN and PHX.

Not to metion they are both a cheap (around 100bucks) hours flight away.

[mortimer]

EnjoyEP cautioned:

> ... But the point really wasn't to bicker over a couple of hours. ...

I wasn't bickering, ony pointing out that if you keep it to the posted
limits *and* you stop for a leisurly rest or two, you aren't going to
make it in six hours. I always peg it at 70 or 75 - whatever the limit
is - especially in construction zones. (in the 65 zone, I generally
peg it at 69)

People from 'back East' reading this might not have any concept of
the long distances. Don't laugh; I hosted an 'Easterner' just recently
who was all a-gape over and over w/r/t how far you could see, etc.

> ... you only need one bathroom 10-minute stop which includes gas.

10-minutes? I don't think I've *ever* been in that much of a rush.

I'll just keep it in the right lane and let you pass me by ...