Best retirement--Albuquerque, Austin or Phoenix? (Las Cruces, Santa Fe: 2010, how much, house prices)

[DCTalk]

Looking to retire in the not-too-distant future and looking to the Southwest as the place to park. Having visited various places in the West over the past few years, I have become enamored of several locations, notably Phoenix, Albuquerque/Santa Fe (yes, I know they're different places), and Austin. Each are very different, with their own pluses and minuses. And I'm not someone who has never visited these cities. I have made multiple trips to all of these locations, so I'm not going into this blind.

Currently I live in the DC metro area, but have spent most of my life in the Midwest prior to my decade here. I'm a big city boy and I like big city amenities, but I have grown weary of the crowds, the traffic, and the outrageous cost of living of the northeast corridor (which I define as the megalopolises along I-95 from DC to New York and up to Boston). I have come to long for the more open spaces of the southwest. Now I am not prepared to live in some small town. I've never lived in a metropolitan area smaller than a million-plus. But while the DC metro area and the Phoenix metro area are approximate in population, Phoenix seems less crowded (and no matter how much Phoenicians think their traffic is abominable, it cannot compare on the misery index with the DC area.). For smaller cities, having a major university compensates for some of the cultural activities that may be lacking otherwise.

So what am I looking for? (No, I don't play golf.) Reasonable city amenities/arts/events/things to see-and-do, accessibility, a thriving downtown, and decent shopping choices for whatever you need (like an Apple Store). With regard to future considerations as I age, I realize the cities I've narrowed my choices to are severely lacking in public transportation, but with nascent commuter rails in all three places at least. And the southwest is lacking compared to the East coast in terms of quality of health care. But the primary factors are warm weather and what I consider some cultural/artisitic/creative ferment, especially on the music front, which is my primary interest.* Having lived in cities in the midwest and east coast all my life, I don't care if I ever see snow again. (While I love Denver, its weather has forced me to remove it from my short list.) Yes, I know Phoenix and Austin get very hot in the summer. There are trade-offs everywhere. I can take heat better than cold. All three of these places have much more reasonable housing costs than DC or the northeast corridor. So here's my assessment of the three locations in terms of what I'm looking for.

Albuquerque/Santa Fe:?Advantages: There is a certain indefinable something about New Mexico. Great scenery and a certain spiritual vibe I've never felt anywhere else. Albuquerque is finally growing to where it can be considered a real city (yes that brings problems, but more pluses than minuses). Santa Fe is more unique and lovelier than perhaps any place I've visited.

Arts/culture--Santa Fe has it on a liveable scale (not cost of living scale), and ABQ has a viable arts scene. There is some real artistic ferment in ABQ that could make this town a creative Mecca if handled properly.

Music--Santa Fe is too small for this, but ABQ has a nascent music scene that shows real promise. With music fests like Hyperfest and Alibi's semi-annual club crawls, it's sort of like a mini SXSW, or what SXSW used to be. And Santa Fe has High Mayhem, while ABQ has Oscillations for my electronica interest. Unfortunately, few of the big concert tours go there. And there are no really decent record stores in the state.

City amenities--shopping variety is less in ABQ than the other two larger cities, but as it grows it will get better. Public transport leaves a lot to be desired, but RailRunner is a good start. (When gas is $5/gallon, you'll thank your lucky stars that your state leaders had the foresight to fund this train. Wouldn't it be great if it ran from Santa Fe to Las Cruces?) ABQ is starting to have a liveable downtown with some nightlife. The Nob Hill area is funky, too.

Weather: ABQ has the most temperate weather, with low humidity. Yeah, ABQ does have a (comparatively mild) winter and it certainly gets some light snow a few times each year, but it's not like living in Chicago or Detroit.

Love the adobe-style architecture.

ABQ is the least expensive cost-of-living-wise of all the locations in question.

Disadvantages: Santa Fe is too expensive. And it gets cold in the winter. Don't like the cold. But there is something about SF that draws you to it. ABQ doesn't quite excel at any one thing (other than nearby scenery perhaps), but it doesn't have any extreme negatives either, so perhaps it evens out to the most reasonable choice in many ways.

No major sports teams. I do like the Isotopes, though.

Future serious water problems, like the rest of the desert southwest.

Phoenix:?For a metropolis of its size, it is not up to the big leagues in the arts/culture scene, and the downtown is certainly lacking in terms of liveliness. Shopping-wise, you can find whatever you need. No real music scene that I could discern. No really outstanding record stores, but far better selection than Albuquerque, as long as Virgin stays around (and the Stinkweeds store really does have an odor to it, thus living up to its name). A lot of the big concert tours do come to Phoenix. The pluses sound fairly tepid so far, but I've always had a good feeling visiting Phoenix. I do like Tempe's Mill St. area, and I like the look of the east valley area as a whole for some inexplicable reason. Scottsdale is too expensive, but Tempe/Mesa are certainly reasonable costwise and seem very liveable. I could feel comfortable living there (even with the blast-furnace summers) but a metropolitan area of this size should have more going on. And despite what the natives think, compared to where I live now, I've always found Phoenix to be very navigable for its size at any time of day if you stay off the freeways.

I was going to say that with the Cardinals, Phoenix has no major sports teams, but that isn't really true. (As a former St. Louisan, I am no Bill Bidwill fan.) Phoenix does have the full panoply of major-league sports.

Weather--scorching summers, yes, but great winters.

Disadvantages: Bat-**** crazy Neanderthal Nazi Sherriff. Corrupt to boot. Seriously, this guy should be locked up. While New Mexico has evened out to be more balanced politically, Arizona still has too many right-wing whacko extremists in places of office. But it's slowly becoming more moderate. Another few years, it will be a purple state.

Future serious water problems, like the rest of the desert southwest. Why are grass lawns allowed???

Growing LA sprawl. Seriously lacking adequate public transport for such a large city. The new commuter rail line is a good start, but just a start and years late.

Sometimes the months of constant heat can get to you. But it beats a northern winter any time.

Austin: ?Advantages: Music--can't beat it, although SXSW has gotten too big, and the major concert acts typically pass Austin by. My one issue with Austin's music scene is that it's overly oriented to roots rock/blues/country along with the college indie bands. I lean more to experiemental and electronica which seems in short supply there. But I still love the ambience/vibe of the place, and seeing a good band of whatever genre makes for good living in my book. Other arts/culture are lacking compared to the east coast, but still better than a lot of places.

More liberal-thinking, artistically creative types on a per capita basis than most cities.

Cost of living--although it has the highest housing costs in Texas, and the highest of the other locations on my list other than Santa Fe, it's still far more reasonable than DC or the east coast.

Weather--hot, muggy summers but warm winters (actually winter temperature averages are about equal to Phoenix, despite the occasional ice storm).

Reasonable shopping and amenities--not up to DFW level, but Dallas is culturally barren from my experience (even with Deep Ellum). As long as Waterloo Records stays in business, I'll be OK.

Disadvantages: It's in Texas, the state that gave us George Bush and Tom Delay. More ignorant, gun-totin' rednecks per capita than any state outside the deep south. Austin is a liberal oasis in a sea of backwards-thinking goobers whose lives revolve around high school football (but they're friendly!). Of course, I'm exaggerating. Not all Texans are like that. But given the majority of politicians Texans have elected over the past several years, you'd think so. And over the years, I've been to every major city and literally all across the state from Texarkana to El Paso, and I've never seen so much land with so little scenery. Hill country is OK, but Texas has a severe beauty deficit. No architecture to brag about either. And other than Austin's creative core, not much culturally/artistically either. (Gonna hear about that one.)

No major sports teams. Not a Longhorns fan, either (I did go to a Big 12 school, though). And I could never be a Cowboys fan.

Public transport lacking. The new commuter rail line is a start, but not sufficient. Serious lack of planning here.

The sweltering humidity and heat sometimes get to you. But it beats a northern winter any time.

So there you have it from my point of view. So let the comments begin. Since I have only been a visitor, I can't make a full assessment as can those who live there. I'm interested in what the natives of these places have to say as to whether I'm on the mark or missing it entirely. I still have to make a final decision at some point, and yes, I will be taking more trips to each place before I decide, but I want to hear from those who live there.

[yukon]

ABQ has an Apple Store, it's at ABQ Uptown.




But no IKEA. Yet.

[nmguy]

My humble opinion . . . . If you want culture, come to Albuquerque; if you want music, head for Austin, although I've listened to all kinds of wonderful music in these parts.

[abqsunport]

I agree with what NM Guy had to say.

To me Albuquerque has an amazing vibe--the whole state of NM does. When the summer gets hot in ABQ (not even close to that of PHX or AUS) you can head to Santa Fe, Taos, Angel Fire, Ruidoso, etc. for a great retreat. Come winter time, the Pinon Fires begin roasting.

Food--Albuquerque wins handsdown. Nothing can be New Mexico Chiles

Nightlife--not bad for a metro of 815,000 (if you include Santa Fe Metro, the combined metros are about 1,000,000 even)

keep in mind that Albuquerque and PHX and Denver are all a hundred dollar flight away.



Of the Three, Albuquerque politics are most moderate. Democrat for Gov. Democrat for Mayor. Republican for 2/3 of Congress. 1 Republican and 1 Democrat Sennator. Overall Pretty balanced. Blue state in 2000, Red State in 2004

Best of Luck in your quest.

[el borracho]

if you are single or married and no kids i would recommend abq if you like 120 degrees in the shade phx and as far as austin theres a reason they call it the peoples republic of austin kinda like boulder

[Towanda]

I am retiring in Santa Fe.

I never once considered Phoenix or Austin. Too hot, too big, too crowded and none of the charm and .. yeah... "enchantment" ...of New Mexico.

But that's just me.

Everyone needs to go where they think is right for them.

[mortimer]

Note that this identical thread is also posted in the [phoenix] and in the [austin] forum. If you liked reading the responses to this post in [albuquerque], you might also like reading in the others.

Also of note (to me) not one person in over a dozen responses felt it necessary to quote the entire 125-line post in order to respond.

That's a good thing.

[Ruth Rosenthal]

Hi DC. I'm also from the DC area (work downtown and live in northern reaches of Silver Spring) and am retiring soon. My husband and I want to move to Albuquerque in a few years. It is truly the land of enchantment. I have not been to Austin, and don't like the big city feel of Phoenix, so hey, I vote for you to move to ABQ!!! I also love the temperate climate, much less traffic, wonderful architecture, and some of the other stuff you mentioned. Unlike you, however, I am willing to live in a smaller city with fewer amenities. Right now I live 35 minutes (in non-rush hour!!!) from downtown DC but mostly just go into the city to work. Too much trouble for this aging suburbanite! So Alb. would have plenty to keep me occupied, I think. Actually, a place in Corrales (if we can afford it) with an Adobe house and a horse is sounding wonderful right now. And to be able to go to the balloon fiesta each year - oh, the joy! Anyway, I just wanted to say hello to a fellow DC traffic survivor and future retiree. Your post sounded so much like me (retiree, artsy, love music, etc.) that I just had to respond.

Now on to a question for the folks who live in Albuquerque: Can you give me any suggestions about where to look for a house? As I said, I love Corrales and that part of the greater ABQ area, but that may be too pricey for us. We would prefer modern, or at least SW, and would like some land (maybe at least 3/4 acre, up to a few). We now live in a typical suburban development, so I don't know if I'd be happy doing that again - and I understand there's a lot of that kind of building going on out west. I am really in the mood for a change, and since I would be retired, I wouldn't have to worry about commuting and traffic so much as just finding something we liked. So what's in the SE part of the city? Where can I live with a modern house (no double wides - argh!) but still have some space yet still be able to take advantage of the culture Alb has to offer? I'm lucky in that housing here in DC is out of control, so after selling our house here, we should be able to buy something pretty nice in Alb. Anyway, comments and suggestions are welcome......

[nmguy]

You might want to take a look at Placitas. House prices there range from $200k to $1million +. Lots of the properties have 1+ acres, and they're only 20 minutes from Abq.

[quote=Ruth Rosenthal;2010678]
Now on to a question for the folks who live in Albuquerque: Can you give me any suggestions about where to look for a house? As I said, I love Corrales and that part of the greater ABQ area, but that may be too pricey for us. We would prefer modern, or at least SW, and would like some land (maybe at least 3/4 acre, up to a few).

[abqsunport]

North Valley is much like Corralles, but a lot cheaper. High Desert is gorgeous. Albuquerque Acres is in the county and will give you good amounts of land.