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So two cities of similar size where one has a crime rate nearly 3 times the other are exactly the same in terms of amount crime that occurs in them?
No. I'm sorry if I haven't explained my position sufficiently.
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They are also the same in the chances that an average person would be a victim of a crime?
Probably not, but it's impossible to know without knowing more information beyond the crime rate.
What is certain is that if you are considering moving to El Paso or ABQ or Deming and are looking to find trouble, your chances of finding it aren't all that different.
No. I'm sorry if I haven't explained my position sufficiently.
Probably not, but it's impossible to know without knowing more information beyond the crime rate.
What is certain is that if you are considering moving to El Paso or ABQ or Deming and are looking to find trouble, your chances of finding it aren't all that different.
So, in other words you do believe that the crime stats are bogus (either for El Paso or for ABQ - one of them must be wrong and doesn't reflect reality)?
If you go to the El Paso forum people ask about crime and are uniformly and almost always told that it is a safe place and that you can go into any part of town and feel safe. My experience of El Paso confirms that - it is amazingly clean (I mean physically clean and trash free) and it is safe. Albuquerque on the other hand (and the whole New Mexico forum) often has long threads of people complaining about the crime and being told to leave or stop complaining or that it must be them that is the problem or all the laundry list of excuses I listed in a previous post.
I happen to like El Paso and am very familiar with it - it is also convenient to compare it to ABQ since they are of similar size and pretty close geographically and in terms of median income (and the demographic make up is somewhat close although ELP has about 80% Hispanic population).
I personally love New Mexico. I also love Arizona (well, certain areas like Prescott) and I love the El Paso-Deming area. Besides the obvious questions such as availability and quality of services (shopping, doctors, car repair etc. etc.), proximity to things like outdoors recreation, so on and so on - safety is also a factor. I think for most people who have a choice, safety or absence of crime and cleanliness of the place are always a factor. If you just got a job and you must move to survive, well, most of these factors may not matter so much.
I walk around a place like Prescott today and I understand immediately why the crime rate reflects what I see - a clean, slow-pace-of-living place that radiates affluence in some areas and just basic middle to high-middle class life in others. I would feel safe in any part of Prescott.
I feel the same in El Paso. I also feel the same in Deming during the day. At night? Not so much. Coincidentally, when we spent time last few weeks in Deming the first thing our host warned us about is that EVERYTHING that can be stolen will be stolen. He is a physician and his place is on 20 acres, it is covered in motion triggered cameras and sensors. Want to go to the trail to ride your horses? Better make sure your truck and trailer are old. We bought a brand new big truck and the first thing people told us is not to take the $100K truck/trailer combo to the trail head and just ride off. Apparently, better by a beater truck and a beater trailer and use that for every day trail riding. Apparently, if it has wheels - it will find a new owner sooner or later. These are people who have lived there for generations telling us this stuff as well as transplants. Still, we just happen to like that area and are considering moving there anyways. Property crime is annoying but most of the time it will not kill you. You do, however, acknowledge that it happens often.
However, I feel that these kinds of warnings (while well substantiated by experiences of people who we know and by the crime rate index you can find on CD) apply to the town proper - 20 miles out it very well may be a different story. And sometimes you see these warnings but the pros of living somewhere outweigh the cons.
If the latter is the case you still acknowledge that there is a problem with the crime and the crime index is real, you don't come up with excuses - it's just that you choose to live with it because you like what else the place has to offer.
If you have found that in ABQ - that's great. However. you still have to acknowledge that there is a problem that needs to be solved. It is not that big of a deal - every problem has a solution (and it is not putting your head in the sand and denying it!)
Without knowing how crime statistics are gathered, it's pretty much pointless to talk about them. This is true for pretty much any kind of survey, scientific study, etc - you need to know the methodology in order to determine the context. My recommendation is to know how safe a particular area is, you need to do several things together:
* talk to locals
* look at polls/surveys asking residents how safe they fell
* look at the crime stats
* look at forums such as this
Take all of these factors into consideration. No single factor is going to be accurate on its own.
So, in other words you do believe that the crime stats are bogus (either for El Paso or for ABQ - one of them must be wrong and doesn't reflect reality)?
No. Just that the stats are only the headline. Your individual risk will vary based on your individual risk factors. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this or why you consider it controversial.
No. Just that the stats are only the headline. Your individual risk will vary based on your individual risk factors. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this or why you consider it controversial.
So what DO you believe? That most victims seek out the crime perpetrated on them? Obviously, doing drugs will land you in a company of people who may be more violent or criminally oriented. Dating an abuser will do the same.
But the stats still tell a story. Anyone who as been to a place with low crime stats can immediately see why that is. Places look clean, generally more well taken care of, so on and so on. If it works in that direction, does it work in the opposite direction? As in - high crime stats areas generally look less safe, less clean etc.?
My life experience tells me so. In a place where crime rate is 200 (national average 300), you are just generally much less likely to be a victim of a crime. Even if you looked for it, there is just generally less crime and you would more likely be the perpetrator or would have to look very hard. In a place where the crime rate is 500+ - well, I think it is much easier for crime to find you. Or do you disagree with that too?
So what DO you believe? That most victims seek out the crime perpetrated on them? Obviously, doing drugs will land you in a company of people who may be more violent or criminally oriented. Dating an abuser will do the same.
But the stats still tell a story. Anyone who as been to a place with low crime stats can immediately see why that is. Places look clean, generally more well taken care of, so on and so on. If it works in that direction, does it work in the opposite direction? As in - high crime stats areas generally look less safe, less clean etc.?
Well that's a very simplistic way of looking at things. If you think cleaning makes you safer then I guess we can just get rid of police and hire a big cleaning crew!
Well that's a very simplistic way of looking at things. If you think cleaning makes you safer then I guess we can just get rid of police and hire a big cleaning crew!
Well that's a great way to avoid a debate
It is my life experience that clean places usually reflect pride of ownership and pride of ownership, cleanliness and absence of crime are all tightly related.
You have tons of police in ABQ and yet it still has a crime rate that is almost twice the national average. Of course in your world, 3 people in ABQ are committing thousands of crimes while the rest and enjoying life - there is no crime problem in the city or the state
Now a different thread on the amount of litter in the city and the state would be nice too. I suppose you will say that only 3 people litter the towns too
It is my life experience that clean places usually reflect pride of ownership and pride of ownership, cleanliness and absence of crime are all tightly related.
You have tons of police in ABQ and yet it still has a crime rate that is almost twice the national average. Of course in your world, 3 people in ABQ are committing thousands of crimes while the rest and enjoying life - there is no crime problem in the city or the state
Now a different thread on the amount of litter in the city and the state would be nice too. I suppose you will say that only 3 people litter the towns too
Still it's strange how your precious Deming isn't exactly clean and has a crime rate higher than Albuquerque.
This is a discussion, not a debate, and your hammering throughout this forum has gotten boring...
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Originally Posted by ognend
It is my life experience that clean places usually reflect pride of ownership and pride of ownership, cleanliness and absence of crime are all tightly related.
That's just your opinion.
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Originally Posted by ognend
You have tons of police in ABQ and yet it still has a crime rate that is almost twice the national average.
Tons? No we have numbers of police. We have been short handed for 15 years that I can recall. We have never achieved the 1,000+ police officers desired and required for Albuquerque.
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Originally Posted by ognend
Of course in your world, 3 people in ABQ are committing thousands of crimes while the rest and enjoying life - there is no crime problem in the city or the state
You are incorrect....
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Originally Posted by ognend
Now a different thread on the amount of litter in the city and the state would be nice too. I suppose you will say that only 3 people litter the towns too
If you believe those numbers on El Paso I would like to sell you a bridge. Comparing a single city's statistics over time might be valid for local trends. Comparing different cities is problematic unless you are keenly aware of crime victim reporting and statistical reporting for each city. Don't assume crime data are gathered, compiled and reported the same way. If the cities are in different states you should be even more cautious.
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