Miscellaneous questions about Albuquerque (Santa Fe, Rio Rancho: relocate, military, debt)

[yukon]

Well, they both tend to sprawl out a tad.......

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

EnjoyEP, I have a question for you (or for anyone who cares to answer), since you've lived in Albuquerque and have been to Denver many times-- this might be a very, very stupid question, but is there any part of Denver that reminds you of Albuquerque at all? Obviously the two cities are very different, can't really be compared, but if you had to take a wild guess, what is the most ABQ-like part of Denver? For me, Central Ave reminds me a lot of Colfax Ave. Would you agree with that? Any other similarities?

Boy, that is just so hard to say, I wish I could give you a better answer, but while I have spent considerable time in Denver, (especially around Aurora), I just can't say I honestly know Denver well enough to compare it to portions of Albuquerque. I can obviously evaluate things like the weather, the landscape, the people, the congestion/traffic, etc., (all stuff you know far better to me), but for where I realizing you are going with your question, I just couldn't do it justice I am afraid.

Denver is just such, such a different place to me in comparison to Albuquerque...again, I realize that you know that and are just looking for comparable pockets, but wherever I go in Denver, it really just reminds me nothing of ABQ.

It is funny...many folks - especially those from Denver (I know you aren't doing this) try to draw parallels between the two cities (with Denver obviously being so much bigger), but to me, it is really hard to do...they just are so different.

There are pockets of Phoenix and even moreso especially Tucson, and then definitely El Paso, that remind me quite a bit of pockets of Albuquerque, but Denver seems to have not nearly as much in common with these cities and has more maybe in common with Salt Lake City or some big Midwestern cities.

One thing I like (among many reasons) about Albuquerque versus Denver is the nearby proximity of the mountains to the city; they are just so much closer and easier to access (although certainly not anywhere near as vast and plentiful as the Rockies around Denver).

Sorry I couldn't be of better help here though!

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Boy, that is just so hard to say, I wish I could give you a better answer, but while I have spent considerable time in Denver, (especially around Aurora), I just can't say I honestly know Denver well enough to compare it to portions of Albuquerque. I can obviously evaluate things like the weather, the landscape, the people, the congestion/traffic, etc., (all stuff you know far better to me), but for where I realizing you are going with your question, I just couldn't do it justice I am afraid.

I'm actually from Aurora, btw-- the south end by Smoky Hill Rd.

It is funny...many folks - especially those from Denver (I know you aren't doing this) try to draw parallels between the two cities (with Denver obviously being so much bigger), but to me, it is really hard to do...they just are so different.

There are pockets of Phoenix and even moreso especially Tucson, and then definitely El Paso, that remind me quite a bit of pockets of Albuquerque, but Denver seems to have not nearly as much in common with these cities and has more maybe in common with Salt Lake City or some big Midwestern cities.

Here's where I'm coming from: I've been through Albuquerque several times before, including one quick overnighter 2 years ago. I've spent a lot of time in Santa Fe, including a trip last summer (we went from Denver to Crested Butte to Durango, then Santa Fe, then back to Denver)-- and I know that Santa Fe is a very different city, just letting you know where I'm coming from. Last time I spent a whole calendar day in Albuquerque was 7 years ago. We stayed at a hotel on an Indian reservation between ABQ and Santa Fe (forgot the name). I remember we did some hiking at Petroglyphs National Monument. Then we drove down Central Ave all the way through the west side of town through downtown, to UNM. I thought at the time that Central Ave, the "main street" of Albuquerque reminded me of Colfax Ave in Denver, in that it was a former US highway (Route 66 and Route 40, respectively) with a bunch of 1920s-1950s era roadside businesses, old motels, old school diners, etc, with certain sections that were very run down and "ghetto" looking and other stretches that have been revitalized and recently turned into "hip" places. Anyway, yeah, I think my question was pretty stupid.

Since you're saying you think you can compare different parts of ABQ with Phoenix and Tucson, do you mind doing that? I'm curious which areas compare. Obviously, I need to go to Albuquerque myself, but in the meantime I'm trying to visualize what the place is like.

One thing I like (among many reasons) about Albuquerque versus Denver is the nearby proximity of the mountains to the city; they are just so much closer and easier to access (although certainly not anywhere near as vast and plentiful as the Rockies around Denver).

I totally agree with you on that one! I grew up in SE Aurora, which is the SE part of the Denver metro area, and it's about a 35 minute drive with no traffic just to get to the foothills. Then from where the foothills begin (say, the junction of C-470 and I-70), it's about an hour, assuming clear roads and no accidents-- a dubious assumption-- to the nearest ski area (Loveland), or about 45 minutes to the Arapahoe National Forest with public-access hiking trails. There are other roads, but I-70 is pretty much the only road that takes you deep into the high country or to most of the ski areas. Going into the mountains is always a huge production, eating up a lot of time and gas. Living in ABQ, that would be ideal having the Sandias so close by! Not to mention some incredible high country in Northern NM to explore. Not only that, but (at least according to my map) ABQ appear to be closer to Durango, CO (one of my favorite towns of all time) and the San Juans of SW Colorado, and easier to access than Denver is!

This might sound weird, but until last weekend, when I spent some time thinking things over, the idea of possibly living in Albuquerque didn't even occur to me; it's like the lightbulb never went off. Over the last year, I've posted on various forums on city-data.com across the country, ranging from St Louis, MO to Los Angeles, CA, and everything in between. I can be very mixed up at times! Keep in mind, I'm 22 yr/old, so I'm still trying to figure out what it is I want out of life. The truth is, I love the southwest and I always have; I'm just disappointed with Phoenix.

Number one problem here is the extreme, barbaric heat. The first 3 three years here I went back home for summer break, just as it was starting to get toasty in May, so I didn't experience the full brunt of the heat, other than the tail end of it from late August to October. Last summer, though, I stayed here during the summer-- when we had over a month straight of consecutive days over 110 degrees. The hottest day was July 4-- 117 degrees! Never again, that was absolutely miserable. During the same calendar year, I was back home during the mega-blizzard of December 2006 and well as in Phoenix during record heat of summer 2007. Neither one was fun, but the Phoenix heat was WAY worse IMO. Even at night it is extremely uncomfortable.

Even Tucson is a vast improvement over Phoenix, especially during the monsoon season. There were many days last summer when it was 110 in Phoenix and 85 in Tucson (and raining too)! I was extremely jealous of their weather last summer! Everybody's tolerance for heat is different, but last year I personally felt like I was throwing my life in the garbage can from May until October. Which is funny, because growing up in Denver, summer was my favorite season of the year. Going back and forth for the last 4 years has changed my mind. I now appreciate 4 seasons, and I don't mind hot in the summer and cold in the winter, just not extreme in either direction. I also hate humidity, unless if it's humid AND perfect temperatures, like San Diego. If I had to pick my poison, I would rather take the colder winter. And I actually like snow; I would miss living in a place with no snow. I personally do not care for palm trees; I'd rather have trees with leaves on them that actually provide shade. Denver I can put up with, Phoenix forget it. Forget Las Vegas too-- a hair cooler than Phoenix in the summer, but still brutally hot. And though I like Tucson in many ways, and I would rather live in Tucson than Phoenix any day, they still get too hot for me.

Second problem I have with Phoenix is that outdoor activities are very limited. There are a bunch of desert mountain preserves right in the middle of the city, which can provide some quick hiking and a little piece of nature, but that's about it, and for over half the year it is simply too hot to enjoy hiking in the low Sonoran desert. Tucson, with the Catalina mountains, blows Phoenix away when it comes to hiking. To get to a signficantly different landscape, you have to drive up to the Mogollon Rim, preferably to the San Francisco mountains by Flagstaff, about a 2 hour, 30 minute drive. Believe me, I've done the drive before, because I am an outdoorsy hiking freak, but it's an extremely stressful drive on I-17 (possibly even worse than I-70), too expensive for my budget to do that very often, and simply way too far. Not to mention skiing-- AZ Snowbowl, the nearest ski area is so far from Phoenix (figure at least a 3 hour drive from home to the ski lift), you might as well forget it.

Third problem with Phoenix is that the city is simply too big, too overdeveloped, and too crowded. This place used to be a highly productive agricultural area, with thousands of acres of orange groves, which in the spring produce beautiful fragrant blossoms. Bit by bit, the orange groves have been bulldozed, replaced with subdivisions. Living in Phoenix takes all the fun out of being in the desert southwest, IMO. You can't even see the stars at night unless if you drive way out beyond the outskirts of town. The way I see it, if you just want a big city with lots of jobs and conveniences and a reasonable cost of living, there are far better choices-- places ranging from Dallas to Houston to Kansas City to Omaha to you name it. And within the southwest, there are much better options, IMO. I don't totally "hate" Phoenix, there are some qualities about it I like, but overall I would prefer Denver. That's where I'm from, where my family is anyway. I think for me, Denver is better than Phoenix, but Denver has some significant drawbacks too. That's why I am giving Albuquerque a serious consideration, since it seems to offer many things I really like.

What do you guys think-- am I looking in the right direction?

[abqsunport]

Yes, you are indeed looking in the right direction. Albuquerque has trails galore (make sure you do the La Luz--most popular). Albuquerque also has a great deal of big city ammenities, but not at the cost of being a huge city. Spend about a solid week here, and then you can formulate a true opinion. Best of Luck!!!!!!

[yukon]

Albuquerque reminds me more of Dallas in the early 90's (before the growth explosion) than it does Denver. But then, I haven't spent much time in Denver.

[Tim Rankin]

Originally Posted by yukon

Albuquerque reminds me more of Dallas in the early 90's (before the growth explosion) than it does Denver. But then, I haven't spent much time in Denver.

Albuquerque does have a little bit of the "bygone era" feel, which is something I identify with and like. It may be one of the reasons it was chosen for the "downtown" scenes in No Country for Old Men [which btw I have yet to see].

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Tim Rankin

Albuquerque does have a little bit of the "bygone era" feel, which is something I identify with and like. It may be one of the reasons it was chosen for the "downtown" scenes in No Country for Old Men [which btw I have yet to see].

Oh really, wow! I did not know that! I saw No Country about a month ago-- very weird movie, it's very long but doesn't really have a "story." Critics love it, I'm not exactly sure why. But yeah, there were some scenes that were supposedly set in Eagle Pass, TX, among other places-- so that was actually downtown Albuquerque.

[EnjoyEP]

Hey vegas -

I will get to some of your other (good and well thought out) questions in a little bit, however, I just wanted to quickly say something:

I know you are still youthful, looking to get out of college, and are unsure of "where" you want to be - this is a GOOD thing in my opinion! You are asking the right questions and I think doing great research. Heck, I am probably about a decade older than you and I am still asking many of these questions!

The bottom line is that there are obviously strong chances that the place you do end up "picking" still may very well not be your final destination (again, that isn't a bad thing).

Soooo...while I am still not certain (not that I obviously can really tell from a message board) that Albuquerque would be the ideal place for you (I still have a sneaking suspicion that deep, deep down somewhere in you you may find still wishing to be in a bigger city - and that is okay! And again, I might be obviously wrong)...however, if you end up really wishing to possibly try it, the great thing is this:

Unlike many of the cities you are considering, even though they are in the same general region, Albuquerque is an extremely quick, easy drive to-from Denver, where you are from and where your family is.

I think this would be very important for you. Unlike if you chose, say, Tucson, and would really have to fly back and forth home or drive for a long, long day, Albuquerque is only 450 miles south directly of Denver on I-25 with a 75 mph speed limit most of that way. Thus, depending upon traffic, your foot-on-pedal habits, the number of stops you need, etc., you are only a 5.5 to 8 hour drive from Denver.

Also, Albuquerque has reasonably good, central proximity still to Tucson, Phoenix, etc.

Thus, if you "picked" Albuquerque to start, you'd have a good geography in the city in being still rather close still to many of the other cities you're considering. Thus, you'd have the benefit of trying somewhere new, however, also still be able to go interview, etc., quite easily in places like Denver, Tucson, etc.

[vegaspilgrim]

Again, thanks for your thoughtful responses EnjoyEP! Hearing opinions from thoughtful people like yourself helps me think things out-- otherwise I'm just talking to myself all day! And you said you were going to continue your reponse to my last post?

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Unlike many of the cities you are considering, even though they are in the same general region, Albuquerque is an extremely quick, easy drive to-from Denver, where you are from and where your family is.

I think this would be very important for you. Unlike if you chose, say, Tucson, and would really have to fly back and forth home or drive for a long, long day, Albuquerque is only 450 miles south directly of Denver on I-25 with a 75 mph speed limit most of that way. Thus, depending upon traffic, your foot-on-pedal habits, the number of stops you need, etc., you are only a 5.5 to 8 hour drive from Denver.

You're right... there's always a chance I could end up relocating again. Main thing is, wherever it is I end up moving, there's always the possibility that I could get tied down there for one reason or another (even for good reasons) and end up settling there my whole life, so I'd like to get it right the first time, if at all possible. One of my greatest fears is getting "stuck" in a place where I really don't want to be. For example, I could end up staying here in Phoenix, but my gut instinct, my "sixth sense" is telling me I need to get the hell outta here now. I'm not that happy in this city and I don't want to have to put up with the misery of the summer here ever again. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I want to become an accountant-- accountants are needed across all industries and all regions and I can pick and choose where I want to live, instead of being "transferred" across the country and the world like freight, mindlessly complying just so I keep my job. Some time way down the road I could see myself becoming an entrepreneur, starting my own business. I love traveling and exploring-- but at the end of the day, I want to come back to a place that feels like home.

Interestingly, I spent some time on Mapquest looking at the distance from Denver to other major cities-- and did you know that Albuquerque, NM is the closest major city (say, at least half a million) to Denver that's not in Colorado? Mapquest says it's 450 miles away, estimating 6hr 30min. I think that's about right; in the past, I've made it from Denver to Albuquerque in about 7 hours. And you're right, that feels "comforting" to me in a way, knowing that I could always jump in the car and head to Denver and even have a place to stay. It's similar to people from LA (such as my roommate) who live in Phoenix-- they can always jump in the car and be there in about 6-8 hours, depending on how fast they drive. I'm actually jealous of him, he goes to LA all the time just for the weekend (he typically flies though on Southwest Airlines), escaping the Phoenix heat, going to the beach and he has a place to stay for free! When you're only a half day's drive away, it doesn't feel so distant.

So I'm thinking, even though right now if I had to make a ranking of places I want to live, honestly, Denver is #1, Albuquerque comes in as #2-- an alternative possibility but a definite consideration. I think for this very reason-- proximity to family, ABQ now moves up the list far ahead of Tucson, Las Vegas, Phoenix, what have you. Out of curiosity, how do you think Albuquerque compares to Tucson? I know you said the two cities are similar-- would you care to explain that in further depth?

Whether or not your sneaking suspicion is true, I don't know, but the issue isn't really the size of the city per se; it's whether or not I like the city. If the size of the city matters, then it's indirectly, as far as it relates to the job market for accountants. Right now I think Denver is my "default" option; if I can't think of a better place to live, I'm moving to Denver on May 9, 2008-- the day after the graduation ceremony, and I'll start attending courses at CU Denver starting this summer. In order for me to change that, I would have to convince myself that Albuquerque (or somewhere else) may in fact be a better place for me, based on what it is I'm trying to get out of life. That's why I'm on this forum.

Actually, there are really three issues at stake here:
#1-- Which city do I want to live in? (Denver, Albuquerque are my two main considerations now. Before I had considered at one time or another Las Vegas, Tucson, San Diego, LA, Phoenix, Kansas City, St Louis, Omaha, Chicago, Washington DC. After thinking things out, there is no way I would want to live in some of the cities on that list. They are all increasingly fading out as possibilities, and fast.)

#2-- Which school do I want to go to get a MS in Accounting degree? Which school offers lowest costs, or the best bang for my buck when it comes to achieving this? (So far I have applied to UA, CU Denver, SDSU, USC, UNLV. I am now considering applying to UNM. If I had to choose which program to go to right this second, I would choose CU Denver, where I should get in-state tution). While I could always go to school in one city and then relocate again somewhere else, I would rather plan on staying wherever I go to school, especially if it's a school where I'd be paying out of state tution.

#3-- If I do move back to Denver, do I live with my parents for one year while I finish up the degree, or do I rent an apartment and live on my own (or with roommates)? One of the biggest factors behind choosing CU Denver is to cut costs- by getting in state tuition. My parents would permit me to live back at home for a maximum of one year if I go to CU Denver. I really do not want to move back home, but if I did, I could save another $6,000-$8,000, possibly even more when you consider all the miscellaneous expenses that add up when you're paying the bills. As they say, a penny saved is a penny earned. One of my goals is to stay out of debt, minimizing any loans, or even avoiding having to take out a loan if at all possible. After all, isn't that what accountants do-- cut costs? But at the same time I want to have a life. And even if I did do it, it would only be one year absolute max-- not that I'd even be able to handle any more than that without shooting myself!

And even if I decided I definitely want to live in Albuquerque, or at least give it a fighting chance to see if it works out, would I be better off going to UNM as an out-of-state student (program tuition would cost me $17,000, plus living expenses-- figure $25,000 total) and moving there right off the bat, or would I be better off going to CU Denver, getting the degree, see if I can do a part time internship simultaneously, possibly live at home, but even if I do live on my own tuition would be lower (about $14,000)-- and THEN move to ABQ when I graduate and look for my first full time job? And if I moved to Albuquerque, went to UNM and for some reason felt that ABQ was a mistake and wanted to move back to Denver, would a degree from UNM be well respected in Denver?

I understand that these are a lot of questions, but these are the questions that are racking my mind right now. Many sleepless nights! The clock is ticking out-- graduation day is May 8, less than three months away! To whoever reads this (and EnjoyEP, I know you will) agonizingly long post, I solute you! What advice do you have for me?

[kensgirl]

Hi, Vegaspilgrim,
I've been following this thread, and for what it's worth, I'd like to offer some observations in reply to your last post:

First, no matter where you start out after college, chances are very good you won't stay there forever. I call it the 5 year rule. 5 years from now, your life will probably not be what you think it will be as of today. Take it from someone who's moved quite a few times - to the point that many of my family and friends keep my address in pencil! Lots of things happen that you cannot foresee, and all you can do is be open to what comes your way. There is nothing that says you'll get "stuck" somewhere.

As to where you get your masters, having worked 10+ years in NYC, unless you are going into academia or a job on Wall St., where you got your degree is less and less important vs. what you know and how well you do your job. Also, as you point out, being an accountant is a very transferrable profession. You can more easily find work in any city.

From your last post, it sounds like you already have a pretty good plan - go to Denver, attend CU, get your masters. This sounds like a pretty good plan, and although it isn't fun, staying with your folks for a year gives you the opportunity to save some money. You can still have a life, but it is certainly easier to focus on your studies without worrying about paying the rent, etc. I did NOT do this after college, and although I certainly learned some valuable life lessons, I don't know that I'd do it again.

Finally, if you want to really see how you like ABQ, it's a relatively short drive. Plan to come down for a long weekend in every season, and check out the city without the pressure of having to make the BIG decision of where to go. You can always do a job search while pursuing your masters.

I hope this advice is helpful. Sorry for the long reply. Best of luck in whatever you do!