Snow, Beer and Mountains (Albuquerque, Santa Fe: appointed, ski resorts, mortgage)

[Talus]

cue the Sound of Music soundtrack-
"These are a few of my favorite things"

The wife and I will be moving from the arctic of Wyoming to Albuquerque this summer. Just a few questions I still have lingering after browsing the forums for a while.

1. I have seen that ABQ gets about 10" of snow a winter. How many big storms are there? I was thinking I would sell off the snow tires for our cars, but maybe I should keep them to get up to the ski resorts. Which brings us to:
1(a). Has anyone been to both colorado slopes and NM slopes? My home turf is Winter Park and Steamboat, CO. Will I be disappointed? What is the consistency of the snow? How much powder is there?
2. What good local beers are down there? I love me some New Belgium so I hope that is still available down there. I was down there for 3 days last month and I didn't see one liquor store. Whats up with that? Are they all within the grocery stores?
3. Are there natural food grocers in ABQ? What is the availability of things like sushi and curry?
4. It seems that there is some good places for outdoor recreation. Where is some good places to hike or backpack? Are there any lakes nearby? Any whitewater?
5. Good places to ride motorcycles? Someplace scenic/twisty?

I am pretty surprised at the home prices too. My mortgage is about $750/mo for a 1000 sq ft 2 bedroom house here. Our budget will be increasing when we move out there and it seems that we could afford a mansion out there for ~$1000/mo. Well not really a mansion, but much more than you could get in WY or Colorado.
Can't wait to move out there. Thanks for the info!

[AndyJ]

My Burque compatriots will surely provide all the relative info you desire, but for now I'll offer a few observations:


1a. I ski, and although it's been less and less over the years, I still manage to get up to a few resorts in both NM and CO each year. Basically my feeling is this: go to Taos and you won't be disappointed; go anywhere else and you will be, depending on the extent of your experiences in CO and other states. Powder at pretty much any resort in NM only lasts a about a day or two - we just don't really get enough large systems to bring the good stuff all season long. You'll find no shortage of midwesterners who haven't an inkling as to what they're doing at any resort (granted, this is always my experience in CO as well). If you don't mind slightly milder slopes, I suggest Pajarito by Los Alamos - never any crowds like at Taos and Angel Fire.


2. I personally don't like any local beers here, which include Tractor (Los Lunas, I think) and Rio Grande Brewing Co. Fortunately, New Belgium is widely available. There are plenty of liquor stores like Kelly's. Unlike some states, liquor is sold at grocery stores so that could explain the seeming disparity of them during your visit.


4. Certainly no shortage of great outdoor recreation, except possibly for lakes (oddly, lakes seem to have been frequently discussed as of late on this board). All you have to do is drive up to Elena Gallegos or La Luz at the east end of town, and you've got great hikes. If you have a day to spare, there are tons of great trails within a few hours' drive. Whitewater on the upper Rio Grande near Taos, Class 3-6 rapids.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by Talus

cue the Sound of Music soundtrack-
"These are a few of my favorite things"

The wife and I will be moving from the arctic of Wyoming to Albuquerque this summer.

Talus, lucky, lucky you! Congrats! I am literally envious. Depending upon when in the summer, and what kind of a summer it is, you may be slightly taken aback by the heat in contrast to WY, but hang in there...summers end much quicker in ABQ than they do in lower desert regions of the Southwest, and you'll absolutely LOVE late September, October, and early-mid November ABQ weather.

I absolutely love posts like yours. In my opinion, the bread and butter of why the city-data forums exist and are useful. Good, concise, bulleted questions...very easy to follow and reply to:

Originally Posted by Talus

1. I have seen that ABQ gets about 10" of snow a winter. How many big storms are there? I was thinking I would sell off the snow tires for our cars, but maybe I should keep them to get up to the ski resorts.

Albuquerque's general snow annual estimates range from 7 inches annually in the valleys (north and south) to the 8-11 inch range in the heights (NE Heights, Northwest/west side, etc.).

The FOOTHILLS of Albuquerque (east of Tramway) average 15 inches or slightly more, and the Sandia Mountains average over 100 inches (this is not the city obviously but the high altitude areas of the mountains themselves).

Back out of the mountains and into the city itself, generally the snow is extremely minimal and that which falls lasts no more than a few hours, a day or a few at the most.

Having said that though, you WILL see snow...this isn't Phoenix...usually 3 or 5 times per year, and the odd/abberation type year does have the chances of dropping some decent storms. Last year (06-07) saw the largest 1-day snowfall ever in the record-keeping history of ABQ with a total of a 16-inch whopper; last year also saw roughly 31 inches of snow fall for the year in the city....EXTREMELY RARE, but it did happen.

This year, things are much more "back to normal" and much less than 10 inches have fallen. Of course, I was a resident in 06-07 but not this year, as my luck would have it.

Having said that, even in the amazing fluke that was 06-07 when roughly 31 inches fell, truly, by early-to-mid February, there was no snow on the ground left and temp stretches were reaching into the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and the bizarre snowfalls of DEC/early Jan were a distant memory.

Bottom line: Most years, you'll have 3 to 5 "dusting" type snowfalls with a trace to 3 inches or so dropping; most years you'll have in the range of next-to-no measurable totals to about 11 inches. ABQ is sort of like a town like Atlanta when it comes to snow...it DOES happen annually usually, and when it does, it kind of cripples the city (schools shut down for 2 inches, accidents everywhere, etc.); my wife and I, hailing from the Midwest, always found this very endearing to ABQ winters.

Originally Posted by Talus

1(a). Has anyone been to both colorado slopes and NM slopes? My home turf is Winter Park and Steamboat, CO. Will I be disappointed? What is the consistency of the snow? How much powder is there?

AndyJ responded well to this in his post above.

New Mexico has some excellent skiiing areas, but you do have to drive a bit north for a few hours to get to them.

The Sandia Mountains (10 - 25 minutes on the east edge of Albuquerque) can actually offer some pretty darn stellar skiing - some years. However, ABQ is just warm enough / south / dry enough that many years the skiing there is a DUD. Some years though, the powder is pretty decent there and it is a good alternative for skiing and not wanting to drive very far.

The Santa Fe ski area (60 minutes north) is still somewhat hit-or-miss, but much more hit than the Sandias in Albuquerque usually.

As AndyJ stated, the almost sure "hit" is the Taos Ski Valley. Takes about 2 hours per car north from ABQ, but when you hit there, the skiing most years is Colorado-esque. Very scenic too.

Other places in far northern (and very high) New Mexico like Angel Fire and Red River offer some Colorado-esque skiing opportunities. These are about 3 or 4 hours away by car and are very nice.

Durango, CO isn't entirely far from Albuquerque and offers some great skiing...about 3-4 hours by car.

Certainly, you know what Colorado offers and frankly, it is a not-too-far 450 miles to Denver from ABQ.

Originally Posted by Talus

2. What good local beers are down there? I love me some New Belgium so I hope that is still available down there.

I actually here kind of respectfully disagree with the very knowledgable and good hearted poster AndyJ.

I think ABQ has some OUTSTANDING local beers (and I hail from Milwaukee, WI, aka "Brew City USA").

Check out the Isotopes Brewing Company beers. The Isotopes Slammin' Amber is literally one of the best beers that I have gotten to drive regularly.

The Rio Grande Brewing Co. makes some good products. So does the Santa Fe Brewing Company. I REALLY like the Sierra Blanca Brewing Company and their related line.

Check out "Alien Amber" brewed by folks that make a large line of various beers - I believe Alien Amber may be made by Sierra Blanca. Slammin' Amber is the best in ABQ (in my opinion) but there are other dandies like many made by Sierra Blanca Brewing Co.

Here are some excellent choices:

ALBUQUERQUE
Isotopes Brewing
6910 Montgomery NE, 505.889.6400

Chama River Brewing
4939 Pan American Parkway NE, 505.342.1800

Il Vicino
4000 A Vasser Dr. NE, 505.830.4629

Kelly's Brew Pub
3222 Central Ave., 505.262.2739

RIO RANCHO
Turtle Mountain Brewing Co.
905 36th Place SE, 505.994.9497

SANTA FE
Blue Corn Cafe & Brewery
4056 Cerillos Road, 505.438.1800

Santa Fe Brewing Co.
35 Fire Place, 505.424.3333

Believe me, I like beer (alot - again, I am from Milwaukee, WI) and I LOVE Albuquerque / New Mexico. I think the beer choices are so much better than I would've thought when I moved there.

And yes, New Belgium is widely available in ABQ - all the Fat Tire, etc. My buddies from the Midwest would love coming to ABQ to get their Fat Tire kick (me, personally, I think Fat Tire is so-so at best, but that isn't be snobby, I just prefer a Sierra Nevada type brew over a Fat Tire).

Originally Posted by Talus

I was down there for 3 days last month and I didn't see one liquor store. Whats up with that? Are they all within the grocery stores?

I don't know...there are plenty of liquor stores in ABQ.

See this link:

Liquor - Albuquerque, New Mexico

Like AndyJ mentioned, KELLY's is a large, local, major liquor store chain...tons of assortments of beer, wines, liquors, etc.

But yes, you can also find a huge selection of beers, wines, and liquors in the grocery stores too.

I found ABQ to be very similar to Milwaukee in terms of places to get good fermented beverages...you can find them in convenient stores where you normally would look. There aren't the weird, obstructive laws in NM that you find in some states that govern who / where can sell particular products.

Originally Posted by Talus

3. Are there natural food grocers in ABQ? What is the availability of things like sushi and curry?

Sushi and curry - easy to find. My wife is American but grew up in Asia (long story) and loves both of these things...could find them easily in ABQ. There is a surprising good Asian presence (restaurant / food wise) in ABQ...Vietnamese, Thai, Mandarin, etc. You wouldn't think so but it is there strongly.

One direction I would steer you in:

Talin Market
Talin Market World Food Fare

230 Louisiana Blvd. SE
Albuquerque, 87108
505.268.0206
*This is great for Asian (sushi / curries, etc.).

Also, for natural foods, remember, there is a Whole Foods in ABQ, along with the Sunflower Market (multiple locals). Wild Oats was in ABQ, although I believe they may have been bought out by either Sunflower Market or Whole Foods? Either way, there are plenty of options, along with local grocers.

Trader Joes offers some of this too, and ABQ has one.

Originally Posted by Talus

4. It seems that there is some good places for outdoor recreation. Where is some good places to hike or backpack?

ABQ is full of this. It is a haven for "bigger" cities in the US for outdoor recration.

The Sandia Mountains are an excellent place obviously to start. Right on the eastern edge of Albuquerque, they are custom made.

Yet, you also have the Mazano Mountains as an option, Mount Taylor (only 70 miles west of ABQ off of I-40).

For non-mountain options, you have the bosque in Albuquerque along the Rio Grande. There are the Petroglyphs on the western edges of Albuquerque.

Albuqureque is an outdoor-lovers / hikers-backpackers paradise (as it relates to still being in/near a big city). The weater ain't too shabby either for such endeavors.

Originally Posted by Talus

Are there any lakes nearby? Any whitewater??

Not many lakes. This is the desert. A big, landlocked, desert. New Mexico has the least amount of per capita water bodies of any states in the US.

Having said that, you do have the Elephant Butte (an excellent, huge, man-made resevoir 120 miles south of ABQ) and some other decent lakes near Santa Fe (45 miles north) or near Grants (60 miles west) / Santa Rosa (120 miles east).

For whitewater, you might need to head to far northern NM / south Colorado, but maybe others could answer that.

Originally Posted by Talus

5. Good places to ride motorcycles? Someplace scenic/twisty?

See the answer to part #1 of your question "#4" above.

Originally Posted by Talus

I am pretty surprised at the home prices too. My mortgage is about $750/mo for a 1000 sq ft 2 bedroom house here. Our budget will be increasing when we move out there and it seems that we could afford a mansion out there for ~$1000/mo. Well not really a mansion, but much more than you could get in WY or Colorado.

Yep, I just addressed this in another post, but you are right, despite prices having recently gone up in ABQ over the past few years, you still can get great housing per square foot dollars spent in ABQ. Great housing opportunities (plus, they are in a buyer's market currently)...so indeed, you'll be well set. Plus, the property taxes are pretty low / good, so that is a plus too!

Viva ABQ!!!

[AndyJ]

EP thanks for reminding me about Isotopes brew, that stuff is great! I may be shortsighted in my dismissal of NM local beers as I've only been able to drink legally for about four months now I'm sure my tastes will adapt in due time

[dgls]

It is deer not beer!!

[jrod2828]

I just wanted to add to the conversation that I like the title of this thread.

Throw in women and ESPN and you are talking about Utopia

[jazzlover]

Talus,

I spent several great years in Wyoming. I don't live in New Mexico, but I've spent a lot of time there in the past 40 years--most of those times in northern New Mexico. I agree with the other posters--my skiing friends tell me that Taos or Red River are probably the best "Colorado-like" ski areas in New Mexico. Just plan to rub elbows with a lot of Texans.

When it comes to mountain recreation, the area of Colorado that comes closest to Wyoming in beauty, solitude, and lack of development (though it is creeping in) is the area right on the Colorado/New Mexico border. The mountains in northern New Mexico are even more uncrowded, which--in my opinion--makes them all the better. I don't count Durango, CO in that--it's gorgeous, but WAAAAY overdeveloped. The Tusas Mountains, and the Sangre de Cristos are among my favorites. I haven't been up in them, but the northern part of the Jemez Mountains--Valle Grande, and the Nacimientos look pretty awesome, too.

The upper Rio Grande gorge is considered some of the best whitewater rafting anywhere.

The neat thing in northern New Mexico and far southern Colorado that you won't find anywhere in Wyoming or the rest of Colorado is the mixture of gorgeous mountains and desert, along with the the Hispanic heritage of the area. That is very "enchanting" (one reason New Mexico is called the "Land of Enchantment," no doubt). That is one thing that is completely different from Wyoming and that you will have to get used to. Oh yeah, forget the curry and the sushi--the great thing in New Mexico is authentic New Mexican (not Tex-mex slop) food. Good stacked green chile enchiladas beat just about anything, in my book. Even for fast food, a green chile burger at Blake's Lotaburger beats any burger you'll get in Wyoming (sorry, Wyoming friends).

As for beer, I'm not an expert on it--I just order a Negra Modelo and call it good.

[Towanda]

Great post, jazzlover!

[InTheDesert]

Don't forget Cost Plus/World Market off San Mateo for a great beer and wine selection, they offer lots of beers from the microbreweries around the state.

[mortimer]

AndyJ admitted publicly:

> ... I've only been able to drink legally for about four months now

Whippersnapper.