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I’ve been lurking here for a while, but finally decided to sign-up and post as I have a question:
I’m a Golf Course Superintendent here in Arizona and hope to be interviewing for the position with the City of Albuquerque to manage the maintenance of the four municipal golf courses. I would like to get any and all feedback on the courses. I’m not just looking for golfer feedback either… if you have any comment or info on the courses, whether its water usage, course conditions, or how the city runs them… positive or negative, I’d like to hear about it.
I like what I’ve read so far here about the city itself… so tell me about these municipal courses please!
Hmm, well arroyo del oso used to be considered very nice, but recently the city has greatly reduced water allowances for golf courses. You will find that New Mexico is much more protective of its water than Arizona is.
Years ago I lived on the west side and played at Ladera. They had a twighlight nine special. The course was rougher than sandpaper, with more holes than Madonna's pants, and drier than my prom date. That was in the early 90's. I don't golf much these days, but a few guys I know still do. They seem to like Tanoan simply because it is kept so well. Their favorite city course is Arroyo Del Oso.
If you're good please take the job! Albuquerque has four municipal golf courses, one being 9 holes. Of the 4 only one is in terrible shape (Ladera). This course needs some much needed TLC, and probably some adjustments to the overall layout. The course gets lots of wind in the area so maybe getting rid of some of the dead grass and creating a more target style layout would be beneficial to the course. Arroyo del Oso is the best of the bunch, followed by Los Altos, and Puerta Del Sol (9 holes), and finally Ladera. If Ladera were in good shape it would easily move into the #2 spot.
Arroyo del Oso is the best of the bunch, followed by Los Altos, and Puerta Del Sol (9 holes), and finally Ladera. If Ladera were in good shape it would easily move into the #2 spot.
I agree with all of finmqa1's post, especially this above.
Arroyo del Oso is a very, very, very nice public / municipal course - a great course for the greens fees. I lived near it and would play at it all the time.
Ladera has so much potential but just is badly underserved sadly. I would love to see you take the job and take it on as it could be a really decent public course.
...but recently the city has greatly reduced water allowances for golf courses. You will find that New Mexico is much more protective of its water than Arizona is.
Just recently? Can you provide a link to something written about this? I'm curious to see what they're doing... by the way, we've had ground water restrictions in place since 1980 and they keep chipping away each year! Most all of the recently constructed courses are on reclaimed water. Do you know what the source is for the courses?
I agree with all of finmqa1's post, especially this above.
Arroyo del Oso is a very, very, very nice public / municipal course - a great course for the greens fees. I lived near it and would play at it all the time.
Ladera has so much potential but just is badly underserved sadly. I would love to see you take the job and take it on as it could be a really decent public course.
I see that the city has just raised the rates and will adjust them annually (no more than $1.00). Is the price where it needs to be, or could it be slightly higher to cover additional maintenance (golf is an enterprise division and thus has to be self sufficient)? Should Ladera be slightly cheaper, given the current condition?
I see that the city has just raised the rates and will adjust them annually (no more than $1.00). Is the price where it needs to be, or could it be slightly higher to cover additional maintenance (golf is an enterprise division and thus has to be self sufficient)? Should Ladera be slightly cheaper, given the current condition?
Keep 'em comin' guys... Thanks.
Providing they are in great shape you could easily raise the price $5-8 during the week, and $10 on the weekends, the memberships are obscenely cheep.
AZGreenskeeper, I couldn't find a link to support my claim that the city has been tougher on the municipal courses by restricting water. However, I could have sworn I read it somewhere. Hopefully I am wrong because I have always loved playing at ADO, even though I used to be a member of ACC, then joined Tanoan (didn't like the people all that much--too snooty and upity), so now I joined at Sandia. However, I always loved playing Arroyo and Paradise Hills (now desert greens).
Is the price where it needs to be, or could it be slightly higher to cover additional maintenance (golf is an enterprise division and thus has to be self sufficient)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by finmqa1
Providing they are in great shape you could easily raise the price $5-8 during the week, and $10 on the weekends, the memberships are obscenely cheep.
While overall I don't disagree in the least with finmqa1 and would trust his opinion immensely on topics like this, I guess I would be somewhat torn.
Partially, I agree with where finmqa1 is coming from. Especially a beautiful course like Arroyo del Oso (in a tremendous geographic location), fees probably could be raised.
HOWEVER, wow, golf has just become a game that has somewhat risked pricing out a segment of its playing market. Especially in a city like Albuquerque, that has a large middle class golf-playing segment (eg: unlike the Phoenix metro area where you are going to find tons of upper-middle / upper class residents looking to play golf) and is still a rather bargain-seeking town (in a good way I am saying this), you really risk losing more business than it is worth by significantly raising fees.
I know me, a dad of two whose wife stays at home (by our choice), money is tight. I can't afford the private courses. However, I could afford occasional rounds (and some driving range jaunts to work on my woeful/pitiful swing/play) at Arroyo. Raise the fees much more though, and I would've been pretty much out. (Golf is the type of game if you price it to where folks can only play once or twice a year, they'll likely just give it up altogether).
Now don't get me wrong...I am fully a capitalist and couldn't abide more with the principles of profit, supply v. demand, etc., so I am not telling you a "sob story" to try to keep prices low. Moreover, really what I am driving at is that I think there are a lot more folks like *I am* in ABQ than a Phoenix or maybe even a Tucson (due to the snowbirds in Tucson) and thus, I would really be hesitant to increase fees significantly at running the risk of taking the demand from "X" and greatly reducing it to "Y".
The other factor you have here is that for a city of only 500,000 (and a metro of only 850,000), you have a uniquely large bulk of TREMENDOUS private-public courses. I mean, I don't need to tell you about all of the amazing courses that the public can play over the muni courses in ABQ I am sure (Twin Warriors, UNM Championship, etc.); there are tremendous courses at Isleta Casino, Sandia Casino, in Santa Fe, in the East Mountains, etc. A LOT of major league beautiful courses.
The "sell" for the muni courses over these incredible courses is the price. If the price even would get semi-near the prices of these amazing courses, people would opt for the private-publics, not because the munis are *bad* per se, but because the formers are so good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azgreenskeeper
Should Ladera be slightly cheaper, given the current condition?
Absolutely.
I always felt (and some of my colleagues in ABQ thought I was nuts) that Ladera was such a diamond in the rough potentially. Not because it was in good shape...it largely isn't. But because if it was given proper TLC - in the geographic setting (the IDEAL geographic setting) it encompasses, it could really be up there with Arroyo as a beautiful and sought-after ABQ muni course.
Also, don't forget that Ladera is in the heart of the rapidly growing area of Albuquerque - the West Side. As growth continues on the far west regions of ABQ, this course will gain more and more potential players.
But until it can be brought "up to snuff", there has to be a "hook" to get ABQ golfers who currently would never consider playing there to consider playing there. I think the hook very well could be - for now - reduced prices.
The course stinks currently. Have dirt cheap prices right now just to lure folks onto the course. Then, hit the course hard with improvements. Even though the improvements needed would be many, even just hitting a few every few months/year would look amazingly better. People would notice. They'd keep coming back, seeing the lower prices and the efforts to improve. Certainly, as the course builds back up to snuff (compared to the standard of Arroyo) prices could be adjusted accordingly, and you'd have a willing base to pay as they'd already be "hooked".
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