moving to Alb (Albuquerque, Hope: pharmacists, taxes, exemptions)

[abqsunport]

Well being raised with two working parents, I would like to give the alternate perspective. I went to day care; was I raised by Day Car?... absolutely not. My mom and dad would switch off taking me and my brother to lunch (week days obviously) on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Also, Day care allowed me and my brother to meet people and make friends...on our own. It taught both of us early on how to interact with people and how to make friends. Also, me and my brother were so excited when my mom or dad would come and pick us up! I always felt that I had extreme respect for both of my parents and I was always so excited being with them--and vice versa. My parents never went anywhere without us (to dinner, on vacations, etc.) But if you think about it, Parents still spend the majority of time with their kids (Picking us up at 5 on Week Days, and all weekends, and all mornings.) Once we got older, we obviously didn't need daycare anymore. However, because my dad was self employed, he always managed to see us (every other hour or so) during the summer work days. This situation obviously isn't ideal, but I have always felt that this was looked down upon way too much by too many. And this situation turned out being a blessing for my family, because my father died when I was pretty young (15). So being that my mom was the major breadwinner, we didn't feel a huge hit financially. So keep in mind...the reverse has some major benefits:

Day Care and Summer Camps allows a great deal of Social Interaction--plus they were fun
Family Bonding Times are pretty much the same (nights and weekends)
Kids turn out being more self sufficient (to some extents; eg. they can find their own friends)

There are benefits to both sides, and I honestly think that people don't completely understand the complete picture.

The bottom line is the way parents raise their kids and the values they instill. Day Care doesn't make or break the kid, the moral values the parents use to raise their kids do.

[EnjoyEP]

Hi abqsunport -

Great / tremendous post - thanks for sharing your perspectives.

Please, please, please don't get me wrong - if I sounded like I was coming down on dual-income parents that choose to do daycare for whatever reason, that was not my intent whatsoever. If I seemed to be a "basher" of sorts, good gracious, I sincerely apologize.

You are obviously one of the more successful / bright regular posters that we have here on the ABQ forums (among many), and obviously your parents did a tremendous job with raising you. I would never think to question for a second a "general rule" of parents and what they choose to do with their kids - as long as their primary interest is the kid's well-being.

THAT is my big beef. I have no problem really if kids are sent to daycare so both parents can work if that was thought-out by the parents and decided-upon to be the best option (just like a sole-breadwinner option would be); certainly, as you say (and as my immense financial weekly/monthly stress can allude to) there are benefits both ways.

I guess more my viewpoint was that to me, being in the sole-breadwinner camp of a family (and again, that was solely my wife and my decision - my wife worked an awesome job for an awesome employer in ABQ), we see so many - so, so VERY many - friends/acquaintences/colleagues/co-workers, etc., who consider THEIR OWN fiscal wants/needs and professional wants/needs over that of their own children's wants/needs. THAT is what I have a major problem with, and frankly, it does get a bit disheartening.

If both parents deliberate, and decide they both should work (with kids to daycare) for the good of the kids / family- sincerely - I have not a problem in the world with that. But so often now I see moms and dads that don't want to sacrifice in the least...they had their kids, but to them, the kids (even though they wouldn't outwardly state it), are more of a nuisance or a side convenience, but God forbid they would get in the way of the "things" they want or the "means" that they want them in. I have a major problem with that.

I guess the main part of your post that I would be alluding to:

Originally Posted by abqsunport

This situation obviously isn't ideal, but I have always felt that this was looked down upon way too much by too many.

See, and I don't know if life/society was a bit different then (I am guessing it was), or if we are all just overly sensitive to our own situations (probably a decent dose of truth to that too), but I see things as the exact opposite.

All my my friends, colleagues, co-workers, hell, strangers, etc., generally have dual-income parents, kids in daycare, making every buck possible, driving the best cars with the biggest homes (a popular phrase for that on CD I guess is the whole "McMansion" thing that personally I don't really get too big on), having the best cruises/vacations, still eating at the best restaurants with the most "fun" "weekend getaways", etc. $400 or $500 per child on Christmas gifts is the norm, etc.

Meanwhile, as I mentioned in my post, with my wife and I barely scraping by (at least it feels at times), we pull up in our old/outdated cars, with our inability to socialize at swanky bars/restaurants every weekend, etc., and we almost feel like "outcasts" - not that folks outwardly flaunt their fiscal advantages in front of us - but when everyone and their brother seems to be in a dual-income 6-figure-plus situation with kids in daycare and we do the sole breadwinner route because non-daycare is important to us, it sometimes gets frustrating to the 10th degree.

***I should say that too, in my final job in Albuquerque, I had to work quite a bit with numerous local daycares all across ABQ metro (from Bernalillo to Moriarty to Tome / Los Lunas) and that further soured me on parents automatically defaulting to the daycare mode. Some daycares are very well run with good, caring, smart individuals. A startingly high number, transversely, are run by shoddy standards, an-almost scary atmosphere, and very uncaring/unintelligent individuals. Certainly most good, caring parents opting for the daycare route would opt for doing extreme due diligence to find the first sub-set of providers. Unfortunately, far, far, too many do not, and settle for the second sub-set, which in my view, is a complete and utter failure of the parents and frankly, a travesty.

So sunport, hopefully that demonstrates that I am not in disagreement in the least with your history or your perspective. I think it really relates to me most strongly from the perspective of where the parents' hearts TRULY are...something only the parents know. Whose motives / concerns they are truly most in alignment with. Then, whether they choose "1 working" or "dual income", if they've considered what is ultimately in the best interests of the children, I think that is more than satisfactory.

A few more points you made though, that I thought I would comment on:

Originally Posted by abqsunport

Well being raised with two working parents, I would like to give the alternate perspective. I went to day care; was I raised by Day Car?... absolutely not.

See then, your parents are the type of folks I would have truly admired. I see / know of far, far, FAR too many parents that allow their children to be raised - for all true intents and purposes - by daycare (whether they choose to admit it or not). And they are people that easily have choices to do otherwise, even if they choose to UTILIZE daycare.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

My mom and dad would switch off taking me and my brother to lunch (week days obviously) on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

See, that is a great ambition by parents utilizing the daycare route. I truly admire folks willing to take strides like that.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

Also, Day care allowed me and my brother to meet people and make friends...on our own.

This is one where I have mixed feelings.

I think because your parents were obviously so supportive and quality - still caring so heavily for your interests - this was a *good* thing as you indicated.

I know that with my daughter (my older one) my wife often times would like her to be able to be more like this (she is extremely shy) and certainly, something like your arrangement would help quite a bit.

I think though, that this gets utilized way, way, WAY too much in *today's* parenting climate. When I go to the park with my two kids - almost EVERY TIME WITHOUT FAIL - I have young, little children (2, 3, 4, 5, etc.) rambling up to *me* to try to garner my attention, my interaction, etc.

I am sorry. That is unnatural. So many kids at such a pre-mature age now - because parents aren't ensuring that anyone other than daycare is raising their kids - are pre-maturely outgoing/agressive, etc., and yet still STARVING for parental attention (even if it is that of a complete stranger because they aren't getting it from their own parent).

To me, that is what is sad. And through some very, very simple, loose and sporadic questioning, etc, almost without fail, these kids are largely raised by daycare.

They are conditioned to try to make friends at age 3 like they normally would've been in generations past at age 7, etc. But not only friends like that, but also to seek parental friendship too. To me, that is just not healthy. To me, I realize all kids are different (my 1-year old son is already far more outgoing than my 3-year old daughter) but it is healthy at age 3 in a park to not necessarily want to talk to complete stranger big people, have an element still of shyness outside of their parents and friends, etc.

So I see this as a very fine line to walk. I agree with your benefits / virtues. But I think unfortunatel that is far, far too abused and extended by parents today.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

My parents never went anywhere without us (to dinner, on vacations, etc.)

See, again, that is a great thing. I think that is highly admirable.

I just again see so many in my generation of parenting now where hey, they feel like "we've both worked 45, 50, 60 hour weeks, etc., we make six-figures, darnit all, we need...no, we DESERVE a break!" so the kids often still get kind of cast aside (even if the parents don't think of it that way) so the parents can do their dinners, movies, vacations, etc. Hey, where daycare leaves off, grandparents fill in, right? This is the stuff that saddens me again, because again, grandparents aren't parents. That isn't their role. Kids NEED their parents. Obviously your parents made the remarkable correct call in their relationship. Sadly, so many I witness now do not.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

But if you think about it, Parents still spend the majority of time with their kids (Picking us up at 5 on Week Days, and all weekends, and all mornings.)

See, to me, this is the one where I would just respectfully disagree. Young kids (under 4) need 11 or 12 hours of sleep or so per night (even though in our society often times parents don't allow that) - it is what their natural body-clocks require.

So if a kid sleeps from 7pm until 6am, that allows for parents to see them on the five (of seven) weekdays a year from 6am - 7:30ish am, and then from 5pm until 7pm - of this time, most is being spent in "rush" mode (wake up, getting dressed, eating, driving, driving again, undressing, bedtime stuff, etc.) Weekends, true, ideally parents are solely with the kids (assuming that previously mentioned dining / vacation thing doesn't interfere) but that is only two days out of seven.

So unfortunately, I don't *see* the quality time as being there with kids under these circumstances. To me, the *heart* of young childrens' lives are from 7am until 7pm, and if for 5 of the 7 days a week kids aren't with a parent / parents, they just aren't getting to see their folks / family enough.

If parents make an adjustment to help alleviate this, then that changes things completely. But again, it NEEDS TO BE IN THE KIDS' BEST INTERESTS, not the parents.

I know of a woman that travels alot on business. She often has her husband wake her toddler son up at 11pm, 11:30pm, etc., on weeknights she is arriving back from business travels so she can see him. To me, that is saddening behavior. She is doing that for *her* benefit, not her son's. At 11pm in the evening, it is most healthy for her son to be sleeping as he has been for 3, 4 hours, etc. He shouldn't need to be woken up to accomodate her guilt for being away.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

However, because my dad was self employed, he always managed to see us (every other hour or so) during the summer work days.

Again, your parents did it the right way for sure.

I know with my first child, I was working full-time but had a home office, so I was able to be with her in the AMs while my wife worked, and then my wife would come home for the afternoons and I would do my appointments, etc., then.

I think arrangements like this are great if both parents want to be working, but still are able to see / spend time with their kids.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

And this situation turned out being a blessing for my family, because my father died when I was pretty young (15). So being that my mom was the major breadwinner, we didn't feel a huge hit financially.

Indeed, out of your tragic and ever-so-real real life example, this is surely a sound reason (in the pro/con side that encompasses both sides of this "debate" for parents to sort through) for a mom (or a dad) to perhaps keeping their noses around the job market, even if on a limited or part time situation.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

Day Care doesn't make or break the kid, the moral values the parents use to raise their kids do.

I couldn't agree more, but also, parents need the intestinal fortitude to ensure that this is the case - so often, far far too often - I see parents that do not ensure this now and that is what I am primarily saddened by.

[jrod2828]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Hi abqsunport -

Great / tremendous post - thanks for sharing your perspectives.

Please, please, please don't get me wrong - if I sounded like I was coming down on dual-income parents that choose to do daycare for whatever reason, that was not my intent whatsoever. If I seemed to be a "basher" of sorts, good gracious, I sincerely apologize.

You are obviously one of the more successful / bright regular posters that we have here on the ABQ forums (among many), and obviously your parents did a tremendous job with raising you. I would never think to question for a second a "general rule" of parents and what they choose to do with their kids - as long as their primary interest is the kid's well-being.

THAT is my big beef. I have no problem really if kids are sent to daycare so both parents can work if that was thought-out by the parents and decided-upon to be the best option (just like a sole-breadwinner option would be); certainly, as you say (and as my immense financial weekly/monthly stress can allude to) there are benefits both ways.

I guess more my viewpoint was that to me, being in the sole-breadwinner camp of a family (and again, that was solely my wife and my decision - my wife worked an awesome job for an awesome employer in ABQ), we see so many - so, so VERY many - friends/acquaintences/colleagues/co-workers, etc., who consider THEIR OWN fiscal wants/needs and professional wants/needs over that of their own children's wants/needs. THAT is what I have a major problem with, and frankly, it does get a bit disheartening.

If both parents deliberate, and decide they both should work (with kids to daycare) for the good of the kids / family- sincerely - I have not a problem in the world with that. But so often now I see moms and dads that don't want to sacrifice in the least...they had their kids, but to them, the kids (even though they wouldn't outwardly state it), are more of a nuisance or a side convenience, but God forbid they would get in the way of the "things" they want or the "means" that they want them in. I have a major problem with that.

I guess the main part of your post that I would be alluding to:



See, and I don't know if life/society was a bit different then (I am guessing it was), or if we are all just overly sensitive to our own situations (probably a decent dose of truth to that too), but I see things as the exact opposite.

All my my friends, colleagues, co-workers, hell, strangers, etc., generally have dual-income parents, kids in daycare, making every buck possible, driving the best cars with the biggest homes (a popular phrase for that on CD I guess is the whole "McMansion" thing that personally I don't really get too big on), having the best cruises/vacations, still eating at the best restaurants with the most "fun" "weekend getaways", etc. $400 or $500 per child on Christmas gifts is the norm, etc.

Meanwhile, as I mentioned in my post, with my wife and I barely scraping by (at least it feels at times), we pull up in our old/outdated cars, with our inability to socialize at swanky bars/restaurants every weekend, etc., and we almost feel like "outcasts" - not that folks outwardly flaunt their fiscal advantages in front of us - but when everyone and their brother seems to be in a dual-income 6-figure-plus situation with kids in daycare and we do the sole breadwinner route because non-daycare is important to us, it sometimes gets frustrating to the 10th degree.

***I should say that too, in my final job in Albuquerque, I had to work quite a bit with numerous local daycares all across ABQ metro (from Bernalillo to Moriarty to Tome / Los Lunas) and that further soured me on parents automatically defaulting to the daycare mode. Some daycares are very well run with good, caring, smart individuals. A startingly high number, transversely, are run by shoddy standards, an-almost scary atmosphere, and very uncaring/unintelligent individuals. Certainly most good, caring parents opting for the daycare route would opt for doing extreme due diligence to find the first sub-set of providers. Unfortunately, far, far, too many do not, and settle for the second sub-set, which in my view, is a complete and utter failure of the parents and frankly, a travesty.

So sunport, hopefully that demonstrates that I am not in disagreement in the least with your history or your perspective. I think it really relates to me most strongly from the perspective of where the parents' hearts TRULY are...something only the parents know. Whose motives / concerns they are truly most in alignment with. Then, whether they choose "1 working" or "dual income", if they've considered what is ultimately in the best interests of the children, I think that is more than satisfactory.

A few more points you made though, that I thought I would comment on:



See then, your parents are the type of folks I would have truly admired. I see / know of far, far, FAR too many parents that allow their children to be raised - for all true intents and purposes - by daycare (whether they choose to admit it or not). And they are people that easily have choices to do otherwise, even if they choose to UTILIZE daycare.



See, that is a great ambition by parents utilizing the daycare route. I truly admire folks willing to take strides like that.



This is one where I have mixed feelings.

I think because your parents were obviously so supportive and quality - still caring so heavily for your interests - this was a *good* thing as you indicated.

I know that with my daughter (my older one) my wife often times would like her to be able to be more like this (she is extremely shy) and certainly, something like your arrangement would help quite a bit.

I think though, that this gets utilized way, way, WAY too much in *today's* parenting climate. When I go to the park with my two kids - almost EVERY TIME WITHOUT FAIL - I have young, little children (2, 3, 4, 5, etc.) rambling up to *me* to try to garner my attention, my interaction, etc.

I am sorry. That is unnatural. So many kids at such a pre-mature age now - because parents aren't ensuring that anyone other than daycare is raising their kids - are pre-maturely outgoing/agressive, etc., and yet still STARVING for parental attention (even if it is that of a complete stranger because they aren't getting it from their own parent).

To me, that is what is sad. And through some very, very simple, loose and sporadic questioning, etc, almost without fail, these kids are largely raised by daycare.

They are conditioned to try to make friends at age 3 like they normally would've been in generations past at age 7, etc. But not only friends like that, but also to seek parental friendship too. To me, that is just not healthy. To me, I realize all kids are different (my 1-year old son is already far more outgoing than my 3-year old daughter) but it is healthy at age 3 in a park to not necessarily want to talk to complete stranger big people, have an element still of shyness outside of their parents and friends, etc.

So I see this as a very fine line to walk. I agree with your benefits / virtues. But I think unfortunatel that is far, far too abused and extended by parents today.



See, again, that is a great thing. I think that is highly admirable.

I just again see so many in my generation of parenting now where hey, they feel like "we've both worked 45, 50, 60 hour weeks, etc., we make six-figures, darnit all, we need...no, we DESERVE a break!" so the kids often still get kind of cast aside (even if the parents don't think of it that way) so the parents can do their dinners, movies, vacations, etc. Hey, where daycare leaves off, grandparents fill in, right? This is the stuff that saddens me again, because again, grandparents aren't parents. That isn't their role. Kids NEED their parents. Obviously your parents made the remarkable correct call in their relationship. Sadly, so many I witness now do not.



See, to me, this is the one where I would just respectfully disagree. Young kids (under 4) need 11 or 12 hours of sleep or so per night (even though in our society often times parents don't allow that) - it is what their natural body-clocks require.

So if a kid sleeps from 7pm until 6am, that allows for parents to see them on the five (of seven) weekdays a year from 6am - 7:30ish am, and then from 5pm until 7pm - of this time, most is being spent in "rush" mode (wake up, getting dressed, eating, driving, driving again, undressing, bedtime stuff, etc.) Weekends, true, ideally parents are solely with the kids (assuming that previously mentioned dining / vacation thing doesn't interfere) but that is only two days out of seven.

So unfortunately, I don't *see* the quality time as being there with kids under these circumstances. To me, the *heart* of young childrens' lives are from 7am until 7pm, and if for 5 of the 7 days a week kids aren't with a parent / parents, they just aren't getting to see their folks / family enough.

If parents make an adjustment to help alleviate this, then that changes things completely. But again, it NEEDS TO BE IN THE KIDS' BEST INTERESTS, not the parents.

I know of a woman that travels alot on business. She often has her husband wake her toddler son up at 11pm, 11:30pm, etc., on weeknights she is arriving back from business travels so she can see him. To me, that is saddening behavior. She is doing that for *her* benefit, not her son's. At 11pm in the evening, it is most healthy for her son to be sleeping as he has been for 3, 4 hours, etc. He shouldn't need to be woken up to accomodate her guilt for being away.



Again, your parents did it the right way for sure.

I know with my first child, I was working full-time but had a home office, so I was able to be with her in the AMs while my wife worked, and then my wife would come home for the afternoons and I would do my appointments, etc., then.

I think arrangements like this are great if both parents want to be working, but still are able to see / spend time with their kids.



Indeed, out of your tragic and ever-so-real real life example, this is surely a sound reason (in the pro/con side that encompasses both sides of this "debate" for parents to sort through) for a mom (or a dad) to perhaps keeping their noses around the job market, even if on a limited or part time situation.



I couldn't agree more, but also, parents need the intestinal fortitude to ensure that this is the case - so often, far far too often - I see parents that do not ensure this now and that is what I am primarily saddened by.

Best post I've ever read since joining city-data. You need to try to move back to ABQ. I think we really have a lot in common. I also believe in the more old school traditional ways to raise a child. Well, I'm now off to run in the mini marathon here in Indianapolis and it's 5:30 in the morning. Why oh why do I put myself through this every year?

[mortimer]

Please don't quote 1,000-line posts immediately after the original 1,000-line post just to add a couple of lines of text.

Even if you use the [quote] button, it's still possible to cut out most of that text.

[jrod2828]

[quote=mortimer;3654157]Please don't quote 1,000-line posts immediately after the original 1,000-line post just to add a

How's that?

[ziaAirmac]

I guess staying in 'thread' can sometimes become relative, but I'd like to share our answer to the issue since we're going in this direction.

My wife and I did the math, and the truth was a large portion of the second salary was going to end up in the daycare's coffers, effectively paying someone else to raise my kids (all respect to abqsunport's honest and cogent post, this is just were I was at the time.). It so happens that my wife had a sizably larger investment in her education and career, so I was the odd man out. Do I miss my work? Sure, I loved what I did. But spending entire days and weeks with my girls as they grow up is something I couldn't imagine missing now. We knew we would be taking a hit, but you know what, America works both ways. You have the freedom to pursue that next level from here till the day you're done. By the same token, you have the freedom to ignore the marketing machine and choose the lifestyle that suits you. Sometimes I shake my head at how much you can save by just taking the non-marketing machine route. We actually live quite comfortably and are regularly able to go to the shows, events and places that we'd like to. We travel East to visit family when we want. I think Albuquerque is the kind of town that let's you lead that kind of life easily.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Best post I've ever read since joining city-data.

Thanks jrod - you are too kind with your words!

Also, hey, good to "see" you back around the forums!

Originally Posted by jrod2828

You need to try to move back to ABQ.

Believe me, I am trying. If I could get a satisfactorily-paying job that *fits* me well, we'd be moving. That whole job-searching process is just a bear. Lately, I have been working 50+ hours, helping my wife with the two little tykes (3 and 1), getting in my exercise, etc., by the end of all of that, especially of late, I just haven't had the chance phyiscally (not enough hours in the day) to get resumes out, etc. Frankly, I had a couple of - to me, I thought - good leads to El Paso / ABQ a few months ago that didn't pan out, and I think that frustration also kind of got to me.

But I know I just have to suck it up and pull myself up by the boot-straps and make the hours in the day to do the search. There's even a really cool member of the forums that created a tool to further help me time-wise. I know I need to just get back to *doing it*. I think as an out-of-state resident now, one that has certain expectations for a job, I just sometimes feel like "it can't happen." But I know that is the kind of attitude truly I hate - I have to get out there and try to make it happen.

Originally Posted by jrod2828

I think we really have a lot in common. I also believe in the more old school traditional ways to raise a child.

I agree jrod. Tell you what my friend, if we ever end up in ABQ as residents, I will grab a few rounds of Tecates or Dos Equis at the Horse and Angel for you on an NFL Sunday (you can catch the Colts and I will take in the Packers).

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Well, I'm now off to run in the mini marathon here in Indianapolis and it's 5:30 in the morning. Why oh why do I put myself through this every year?

If you like running in Indy, you'd LOVE it in a running haven of sorts - ABQ. I ran the Duke City full marathon a few years back which was quite nice. I also ran the Los Alamos mini-marathon a few years (12.4 miles at 7200 feet). The best race I ran though in terms of fun / memorability was the La Luz Trail Run (a 9-mile trail run from the foothills of the Sandia Mountains to Sandia Peak) a few years ago...so grueling, yet so fun and memorable and enjoyable.

Regrettably, a while back, I came down with a pesky / pain in the butt condition known as "orthostatic intoerance" which has kind of put the kybosh on my running, however, the docs believe it may pass out of my body in a year or so, so it is my hope to be a runner again someday soon. Running is so awesome, especially in the Chihuahuan Desert.

[abqsunport]

Phenomenal posts EnjoyEP (they won't let me give you rep points). To be honest, I think you are right that too often parents try to caste their kids off to daycare. My parents always felt guilty, but I don't think that parents should feel guilty if they go all out to be the best parents they can be. Dual Income parents shouldn't feel guilty for working two jobs, but they should feel guilty if they aren't raising their kids themselves(which is what I think you were saying EnjoyEP).

I think when parents really do all that they can honestly do to make sure they spend time with their kids and raise them with a strong moral background, they are wonderful.

I never had kids and don't plan on them (but there is still time I guess) because I felt I couldn't devote all of my time toward them. I don't feel like I would be that great of a parent, so I really honestly chose not to bring another Human Being in to this world that wouldn't be cared enough for. Me and my wife travel (for business) way too much to raise a kid with the necessary attention that he/she deserves. So our decision to date is to not have kids--I love kids, but I just don't think that I would be a great dad. I occasionally volunteer at local little leagues and yafl and stuff, but I just don't think I could give my kids all that they deserve so here I am. And I think other parents should truly evaluate their situations BEFORE they have their kids. There are always mistakes (I am Catholic, I know all about "Mistakes") and extenuating circumstances, but for the most part, people shouldn't plan on having kids with out planning how they are going to live first.

[mortimer]

jrod2828 asked:

> How's that?

Beautiful. I hope I have turned you over to the dark side.

[Chowhound]

I agree with you sunport. I never had kids as I thought I might not have been that good of a parent. I think alot of people have kids because that is what you are "supposed" to do. We have a couple of friends that give us the "blank" stare when we try to explain why we didn't have kids. It also seems like people think we are snobs or spoiled for not having children. I'm getting kind of tired of "defending" myself for making what I feel are important decisions with regards to major life decisions