10 days until ABQ trip.. a few last minute questions. (Albuquerque: live in, restaurants)

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by jrod2828

we are definitely going to the Marisco Altamar (although only for lunch).

Quick note on this jrod - over lunch (have lunch'd there often), they do tend to offer often a "limited" menu. Still unbelievably good, but they tend to formally cut out a lot of their dinner options.

*However, if you are nice to the waitress and ask for some dinner options in a really butter-them-up kind of way, (if you would prefer an option not offered for lunch), it often works! I know I wanted carnitas there for lunch once (only offered officially at dinner) but was really nice to them, and sure enough, the kitchen fired up carnitas for myself and a few colleagues who also ordered them.

Just a tip, didn't want you to be disappointed as I saw your lunch note.

I wholeheartedly support and recommend their tacos al pastor. Oh, did I say that already? Well, they must be good!

Originally Posted by jrod2828

I have a few questions for you, EnjoyEP. First, what the heck is a fat tire?.. you referred to it when you were talking about drinking at the Tamya Resort.

Oh, sorry about that. Just a really good beer. I think if you see now some other discussion in this thread, it'll explain it better so I won't add much more here now.

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Also, you ran 55 miles a week. No wonder you love NM food so much. While you lived there you must have devoured gobs and gobs of food just to keep up with that training schedule. Again, you and I are alike. I got into running because I love food. I figure I'll eat what I want and I'll just run it off. So far it's worked.

Yep, 100% dead-on. You have no idea what work I would do with a dinner plate at New Mexican and Mexican restaurants after a 13-mile Friday jaunt!! Seriously, I was probably putting 4000 calories down a day (really just ate and ate) and I was easily in the best shape of my life.

I do severely miss that currently being sidelined, as now I really have to watch what I eat and I have 10 excess pounds of flab where I really want to burn them up. My doctor hopes I can be running in a year or so again, and if I do, restaurants will be happier for it!!

I went to this oft-mentioned-in-post Flying Star cafe after running the La Luz Trail Run (not to brag, but a very respectable - although surely not elite - sub-2 hour time) and I don't think they've ever thrown that many of their giant blueberry pancakes ever in with my equally enormous breakfast burrito! Was probably 3000 calories in that one meal!

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Word is high finance is pricey and not that good for the money. That's fine but we really want to do the whole experience with the sunset and everything. Is it that bad of a restaurant? If it is, should we go to the top maybe have some drinks and then head down and eat elsewhere? I could use some advice here.

I know others have already chimed in here, but I will offer my two cents.

It is NOT a "bad" restaurant by any stretch. I have had maybe 2 or 3 dinners there and honestly, the food was fairly good; not earth-shattering-this-was-the-meal-of-my-month good, but fairly good. No real complaints at all, and in fact, enjoyed it generally.

Also, I don't think it is as pricey as you may be thinking / fearing. A lot of what throws folks off is, what I feel, is a silly name for it - the "High Finance"...it sounds much more upscale, pricey, etc., than it is. Don't get me wrong, it is a nice setting / interior, but you'll find tons of people in jeans, casual wear, etc.

It is a decent bar / restaurant. Surely the views are the selling point. But the food isn't awful by any stretch either.

However, I should also add that generally what I ended up doing with out-of-town guests was doing what you alternately suggested. I would usually use it as a great place to grab some drinks, maybe an appetizer, etc. Take the tram up, snap some photos, hike around, see the sites at the peak, etc., and then duck in for some drinks, conversation, views, a snack, etc., before taking the tram back down.

I guess *to me* and to me only, I probably would opt / prefer drinks, etc., at the H.Finance and dinner elsewhere (I wasn't terribly more pumped ever with the Mexican grill at the base either) entirely, but honestly, having had multiple dinners at the H.Finance, I don't think you'd go *wrong* doing it either for the sights and experience. Just make sure to try to get a window table!

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Also, I've heard El Pinto isn't the best of the best. That being said, we're from the most boring city on the planet when it comes to your tastebuds. So anything slightly New Mexican will taste extremely different and good to us. So I think we'll still probably go just for the atmosphere. My wife is more into the atmosphere and I'm more of a quality food kinda guy.

Agreed, jrod. That was the point I was hopefully trying to make in my first post, and I don't know if I emphasized it articulately enough.

Compared to New Mexican restaurants in Milwaukee (which would be zero) or Mexican places here, El Pinto would rate near a 4-star restaurant (out of 4 stars) in my book.

Yes, compared to the cuisine in Indy in this genre, you'll not be disappointed I don't think.

It isn't that popular for the setting / ambiance alone - the food *is* good.

All I was trying to convey was that compared to many other places in ABQ (that you'd probably experience if you end up relo'ing there), it is priced higher and the food probably isn't quite as authentic / good as lower priced counterparts.

But believe me, I ate at El Pinto, what, 6 or 7 times maybe in 4+ years living in ABQ? So going there that often, I must have seen the allure enough!

I would absolutely endorse you going. I guess I was just trying to brace you in that if you eat it, and indeed, you'll probably find it far superior to Indy similar restaurants (although guessing there is no New Mexican place in Indy either), that you realize that for the dollars you spend, it by no means is the pinnacle of dining there; you'll get better for cheaper. But that can come in time...you won't walk away from El Pinto disappointed, the food *is* good.

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Ok, you guys talked me into heading up the Jemez mountains instead of around to Madrid to go to Santa Fe. So now I need to find some good places to get off the road and sightsee and get some lunch. Any cities up that way worth checking out? We love scenery but we really love getting out of the car and experiencing places. It looks like the cities to stop in for lunch would be San Ysidro, Jemez Pueblo, Jemez Springs and Los Alamos.. any of those have some good spots for lunch or worth checking out?

OK, now I feel like a real bozo, and here is where I am going to say "hey, at least I am admitting I made a mistake".

I think Mortimer's advice to you on this topic (his lengthy post near the bottom of this thread) is spot-on. After reading it, I (with many apologies for any frustration it may have caused you jrod), rescind my suggestion of the Jemez loop.

Mortimer is right...it will take incredibly a lot longer driving-wise to go through Jemez to Santa Fe than it would on 14 through Madrid, and frankly, I would hate to see you burn so many hours driving in your limited time in ABQ (unless of course you wanted to!).

It is pretty, but I think Mortimer's advice is spot-on about going through Madrid, the *drive* itself is quite nice that way scenery-wise, and since that is your primary function when going between ABQ and Santa Fe, you probably should go for the far quicker option (and still see very nice scenery).

I let my fondness for the beauty of the Jemez kind of cloud my advice there.

Honestly, if I were doing this myself in 5 days, I would go through 14; I guess while others here really like Madrid (and it isn't as though I am anti-Madrid or anything), I agree with Mortimer that I am not as huge on it. But that doesn't mean the drive THROUGH the area isn't pretty - it surely is.

You'll have by far enough to see and do in your short time in Albuquerque and secondarily up in Santa Fe. I say take the much, much quicker drive, enjoy those sights, and do Jemez if/when you are back.

But of course again, this is all just our opinions / thoughts.

I am sorry to do sort of a reverse step on my advice there.

***Oh, and here is one that most of the other forumites might really lamblast me for - being a Midwesterner, I actually found the conventional I-25 drive between ABQ and Santa Fe to be extremely pretty and enjoyable! I really enjoyed the sights even on ol' I-25, and generally used it, because I didn't really feel a need to get even more scenic than it is. So you may, if only on the way back, take it and see for yourself.

Originally Posted by jrod2828

One more question I thought of, where is all the stuff to do in Sante Fe? If we are coming in from the North where should we go to get into the heart of town? Parking suggestions?

I think the obvious for going to Santa Fe is hitting the Plaza (the middle of Santa Fe) - kind of the "famous" portion of Santa Fe. The shops, restaurants, street vendors, bustle, etc. - that is, what I think any first-timer in Santa Fe, really needs to do.

Also, I have gone to the State Capitol building which is a nice sightseeing thing to do. A beautiful and unique state capitol building.

"America's oldest church" and "America's oldest home" are both near the plaza and worth a sightseeing tour through (doesn't take long).

I think spending some time on the Plaza with your limited schedule though would be your best bet.

As for coming into Santa Fe, it is pretty easy to do. Remember, it is only a population of 65,000 people, so it is fairly easy to navigate around. For instance off of I-25, there are only 4 SF exits. If you'd take, Cerillos, say, and then just head west, you'd hit smack dab into the heart of the town just by following the road in.

For parking? Anywhere you can! Especially near the plaza, parking can be tough. Just find a lot or a spot where you can and pounce on it!!

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by jrod2828

So best to eat at Sandiago's and then take the tram to the peak to watch the sunset, or would it be best to take the tram up then come back down for dinner and the sunset?

I just addressed this in my last post, but here are my thoughts on this (for whatever they are worth):

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

I know others have already chimed in here, but I will offer my two cents.

It is NOT a "bad" restaurant by any stretch. I have had maybe 2 or 3 dinners there and honestly, the food was fairly good; not earth-shattering-this-was-the-meal-of-my-month good, but fairly good. No real complaints at all, and in fact, enjoyed it generally.

Also, I don't think it is as pricey as you may be thinking / fearing. A lot of what throws folks off is, what I feel, is a silly name for it - the "High Finance"...it sounds much more upscale, pricey, etc., than it is. Don't get me wrong, it is a nice setting / interior, but you'll find tons of people in jeans, casual wear, etc.

It is a decent bar / restaurant. Surely the views are the selling point. But the food isn't awful by any stretch either.

However, I should also add that generally what I ended up doing with out-of-town guests was doing what you alternately suggested. I would usually use it as a great place to grab some drinks, maybe an appetizer, etc. Take the tram up, snap some photos, hike around, see the sites at the peak, etc., and then duck in for some drinks, conversation, views, a snack, etc., before taking the tram back down.

I guess *to me* and to me only, I probably would opt / prefer drinks, etc., at the H.Finance and dinner elsewhere (I wasn't terribly more pumped ever with the Mexican grill at the base either) entirely, but honestly, having had multiple dinners at the H.Finance, I don't think you'd go *wrong* doing it either for the sights and experience. Just make sure to try to get a window table!

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by mortimer

EEP> ... if you could only go through either Jemez or Madrid, I would opt for Jemez.

This advice is correct, but know that going-to-Santa-Fe via Jemez canyon is a four-hour trip if you don't stop and admire stuff too much. The Madrid route will only add about 45-60 minutes to what the trip would have been via I-25.

The Jemez Canyon route is a tour whilst the Turquoise Trail is just an alternate (back) route.

I, like EEP don't find much fascination with Madrid, but I like the road that is the back way. I almost never stop.

This is what I am referencing in my last post jrod. Mort is correct here. He's definitely made me take back my Jemez-route recommendation.

Originally Posted by mortimer

EEP> For breakfast, you have GOT to add a Flying Star cafe in. This is NOT NEGOTIABLE ....

Um, .... yes it is. <negotiation mode> He can go there for dinner and pie.
In addition, he should go to the Frontier and Casa de Benevides for breakfast before doing the Flying Star.

If he can't do it all, then there needs to be priorities.

Yeah, I should actually have said going to the Flying Star is not negotiable, not going strictly for breakfast (although breakfast there is incredibly good).

I guess why I considered it in the breakfast sense was because of the runner-thing. I was a big, big fan of their blueberry pancakes and they have items like that and breakfast burritos that are great carbo-loading (and unbelievably good) breakfast items.

However, I agree about Frontier wholeheartedly, and (ashamedly admit) I never went to Casa de Benevides, much less for breakfast.

The thing about Frontier is you can get extraordinarily food there for any meal. Of course, the same could be said about Flying Star.

I guess as long as you hit both of them once, it doesn't matter the particular meal! (But both have excellent, just great breakfast items).

Originally Posted by mortimer

jghoo> It is well advised to pass on high finance. However Sandiago's is at the bottom of the tram and has an excellent view.

The view from High Finance is better and has views of the lights of Santa Fe, the Eastern Plains, Sangre de Cristos, Jemez, and better city light views.

You're a tourist. Go to High Finance.

Oh yeah!!! Bring a coat because it might get down into the 30's just after the sun sets.

Even though it drives Mortimer nuts to quote verbatim just to agree, I had to do it here just once. I agree with this fully. Again, this is only all of our opinions of course, but if you end up choosing Santiago's OR High Finance, with Mort's reasoning, I would opt for High Finance.

HOWEVER, I guess as I have already stated earlier if it were *just me* I would do drinks / an appetizer at H.Finance and dinner at neither one - even as a tourist - so you could *see*/*experience* HF but still get a spectacular dinner somewhere, but again, I don't think you would "go wrong" if you opted to do dinner at H.F.

As for the rest of Mortimer's post, for the most part, I don't disagree a lick in what he is telling you jrod!! Very good, sound advice from a long-time local. (I would quote huge, annoyingly large sections of it to "endorse" it of sorts, but that would only drive Mortimer to a rage! ).

[mortimer]

EnjoyEP mis-understands:

> Even though it drives Mortimer nuts to quote verbatim just to agree, ...

Nope.

Quoting verbatim is just fine.
Only quote what you are responding to lest I get cross with thee.

I get cross when someone quotes 100 (or 1,000) lines and then only responds to one of them or says:
"Yeah dude: Fer Sure!"
.................................................. ................ grrrrrrrrr!

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by mortimer

I get cross when someone quotes 100 (or 1,000) lines and then only responds to one of them or says, "Yeah dude: Fer Sure!"
.................................................. ................ grrrrrrrrr!

Actually, THAT is what I was referring to!

(Usually kind of annoys me to, although sometimes I get guilty of it myself - except for the "yeah dude, fer sure" part!! ).

[_yb]

Jrod:

You can always get a hike in at the Valles Calderas on the way up to SF via Jemez.
Valles Caldera National Preserve

Also if you want to eat at a place in SF that will really make your taste buds tingle. Try the chile at the Horseman's Haven.

[ABQ in 2008]

Jrod,
You said that you are staying at the Nativo Lodge. Have you been to the website:
Albuquerque - Albuquerque New Mexico - Albuquerque NM Go there, click on packages & deals, then click on coupons and download the coupons. There's a nice savings coupon for Nativo Lodge. Of course there are a whole bunch of other offers as well........I just thought the Nativo one could save you a few bucks. (to spend on more yummy food or something.)

[jrod2828]

Haha.. you guys are too funny. I'm in a tug a war with EnjoyEP and Mortimer. So I'm making an executive decision since, well, I am the tourist. I'm doing High Finance at the top of the tram. I'm doing El Pinto for dinner. I'm doing route 14 to Sante Fe. And I'm still unsure if I'll do a stop in Madrid or not.

I know the perspective both of you are bringing. If someone was visiting Indy and asking me for advice I'd skip all the popular touristy spots and point them to the cool "out of the way" spots that the locals know. But then again, they are tourists and should do some of the tourist things.

Me personally, I'm a quality guy where my wife likes more of the glitz and glamour. For instance, if we are on vacation somewhere different she will usually be in a gift shop buying post cards while I'm outside the store in an alley asking a local guy where his favorite place to eat is. So I see where you are coming from EnjoyEP, and I also appreciate the touristy advice from Mortimer.

So let's say I take 14 up to Sante Fe and don't stop in Madrid. That gives me lunch and dinner in Sante Fe (my original plan was just dinner). I'm definitely doing the cafe plaza. So that gives me one more restaurant I can hit. Any others you guys would suggest? I've heard The Shed is good. Thoughts on The Shed?

Also, my last day is sort of a wild card day.. nothing planned except restaurants to hit. I was thinking by the time we spend 4 days in ABQ, the 5th day we'll know exactly what we want to do. But just in case nothing comes to mind, I don't want to waste a bunch of time looking for something to do, anything you all would recommend? My thoughts were petroglyphs, day trip to Jemez mountains, Roswell, Botanical Gardens.

I wonder how vacation planners stay in business with websites such as this.

[abqsunport]

The Shed is great, and I would definitely recommend it!

For the fifth day, are you a golfer? Paako Ridge alone is worth the trip. We have some beautiful municipal courses as well as great resort courses (Sandia, Twin Warriors, etc.) UNM Championship Course is also beautiful.

Maybe you want a spa day? Maybe you feel like checking out a local casino? Maybe you want to go to a musuem? Perhaps you want to take a trip to Gallup for a tourist trap full of cheap (but authentic) Indian Jewelery and Pottery. A visit to sky city could be cool. Petroglyphs are fun if you are into that sort of thing. There are plenty of things you can do, perhaps an Isotopes game (albuquerquebaseball.com: Home) on one of the nights (you're the baseball fan right?).

Anyway, best of luck with your trip!!!!

Let us know how it goes!

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by jrod2828

I'm doing High Finance at the top of the tram. I'm doing El Pinto for dinner. I'm doing route 14 to Sante Fe. And I'm still unsure if I'll do a stop in Madrid or not.

Jrod, though, if you read through my latest long, rambling, far-too-many posts, you'll see that I actually *agree* with you fully on all of these decisions!! So no tugging of the war - at least from my end!!

Originally Posted by jrod2828

So I see where you are coming from EnjoyEP, and I also appreciate the touristy advice from Mortimer.

I don't know though what you mean jrod!! I think I pretty much *agree* with Mortimer on everything! My only thing is that slightly, slightly, SLIGHTLY I would've recommended drinks only at the High Finance and dinner elsewhere, but I totally think you wouldn't go *wrong* with dinner at the H.Finance!!

I think Mortimer and I are pretty much in agreement (and where we weren't, he kind of set me straight previously! ).

So that gives me one more restaurant I can hit. Any others you guys would suggest? I've heard The Shed is good. Thoughts on The Shed?[/quote]

My wife's aunts who love Santa Fe (live in Denver) and spend tons of time in SF, LOVE The Shed. So does, I believe, Food Networks' Rachel Ray.

For me, humph. Yeah, it is good. You might go there to make your wife happy. It is a good wife-pleaser. For me, I like it well enough - I really do - but I think it is a *tad* overrated, but again, that is just me.

Some places (totally underrated) that I like in Santa Fe include:

1. the Atomic Cafe (kind of a bar / restaurant place right off of the Plaza - awesome food for a great price; great place for a beer too) and...

2.the absolute best Mexican restaurant (Mexican, not New Mexican) I ate at in my whole time in New Mexico - Los Portrillos on Cerillos Rd. (eg: the biggest road in SF but not in the plaza area). It is in an old Pizza Hut building and I cannot quite adequately convey just how good the food is; recommendation? The gorditas. Muy bueno.

3. Mariscos La Playa. Also one of the very best *Mexican* restaurants I ate at in my entire time in New Mexico. Mexican seafood. Great decor. Great comida. Possibly just as good - if not better - than Mariscos Altimar in ABQ. Also off of Cerillos Rd. (not by the plaza) - cheap and darn good.

4. Blue Corn Cafe. My first meal ever in Albuquerque was at the Blue Corn Cafe...their ABQ location has since departed, however, they are still in Santa Fe. I ordered an Indian Frybread Taco (lucky choice for me) and forever was in love with New Mexican cuisine. Awesome NM cuisine. Good microbrew. How can you go wrong?

Others will probably have other suggestions. One thing Santa Fe surely has no shortage of is unbelievably good food.

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Also, my last day is sort of a wild card day.. nothing planned except restaurants to hit. I was thinking by the time we spend 4 days in ABQ, the 5th day we'll know exactly what we want to do. But just in case nothing comes to mind, I don't want to waste a bunch of time looking for something to do, anything you all would recommend? My thoughts were petroglyphs, day trip to Jemez mountains, Roswell, Botanical Gardens.

>>>Did you see my blurb about the Golden Crown Panaderia (New Mexican bakery near Barrela's Coffee House and Old Town) - I thoroughly recommend a stop in there and grabbing a loaf of green chile bread for the flight home. Not just for the bread / food, but for the ambiance and the cultural / uniqueness.

Beyond that...

Originally Posted by jrod2828

petroglyphs

Unless you are "hiked out" by this point, I wholeheartedly endorse the Petroglyph recommendation. So cool, so unique.

Beautiful, historical, fascinating...and to boot, you may see a rattlesnake sunning itself! (Or a roadrunner going after one!).

Originally Posted by jrod2828

day trip to Jemez mountains

You know from our previous discussion that I am a fan indeed, but I would stick along the lines of my "revised" suggestion about the Jemez...I would probably save them for a subsequent visit to ABQ. However, if you've been running / hiking a ton and have muscles in need of soothing, you could do far, far worse than heading to the Jemez and soaking in one of the natural pools of hot spring water.

(Still, I would probably vote "no" on this until a future visit / stay if I were you).

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Roswell

Definitely no.

Do not even consider Roswell. A long, long drive from ABQ one-way...you'd spend so much time in the car, see so much barren, openness in the way (which you'd appreciate in time as a resident but wouldn't want to do at this juncture), and frankly, you'd be - I believe - as a tourist, mightily disappointed by what Roswell has to offer; definitely worth a neat stop off for folks in my opinion when they've settled into ABQ, but it definitely isn't worth one of five precious days that could be spent in ABQ.

Originally Posted by jrod2828

Botanical Gardens

Now this would be a GREAT idea. You / your wife would have to have some interest in desert gardening, or at least interest in learning some or observing some. If so though, a great, great idea.

The Botanical Gardens are very nice in ABQ. Definitely worth a trip, and definitely unique to the Midwest.

So of these ideas, I would say:

#1. Petroglyphs
#1a. Botanical Gardens
#3. Jemez
Not allowed by Enjoy EP: Roswell