Albuquerque compared to Tucson? (Santa Fe, Taos: sales, real estate, crime)

[Grass4]

Hi all,

New Yorker here, looking to move to an affordable, warmer city with lots of outdoors type stuff and plenty of arts/culture readily available. I'm 23 and will likely be working as a freelancer.

My dad currently lives in Tucson, which I've visited enough times to get a good feel for. I was wondering how Albuquerque compares.

Traffic-wise, people, food, arts/culture, cost of living, size of city, and anything else you can think of.

I think the comparison could give me a pretty good idea of what ABQ is all about.

Of course, I'll be visiting soon anyways

[abqandrea]

Greater Tucson Real Estate Blog: Tucson vs Albuquerque; who's better?

We've rocked the downtown revitalization:
Lessons can be learned from Albuquerque | www.azstarnet.com ®

And then there's the navel-gazing:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/gener...-tucson-3.html

Good luck! Obviously I'm biased. I like Tucson, but the Duke City floats my boat.

[ABQSunseeker]

Grass4, before I moved to Albuquerque I once considered the two cities also as possible destinations and chose Albuquerque.

Both are really nice cities, but I think cost of living is lower here, traffic is lighter here (Tucson won't face the future with all of its rampant growth and few plans for new roads), and the arts/culture scene stronger (especially when you link it to Santa Fe, a short distance away). It seems to me also that Albuquerque and New Mexico have a stronger flavor of the Southwest if that appeals to you. Local cultures and traditions are part of the scene and haven't been overwhelmed by growth.

Once this economic downturn ends, ABQ also seems poised for stronger growth and diversity in jobs. Except for the University, Tucson seems more tied to real estate development and tourism.

The one thing that might help you make your decision may be climate. Tucson is definitely and significantly warmer than Albuquerque. That may be in its favor in the winter, but not in the summer when Albuquerque is quite pleasant. So depends on where your greater tolerance is---heat or cold.

[yukon]

When I was looking at cities last year, Tucson was on my list. ABQ won out, in large part because the cost of living was less and pay (in my field) was better.

[EnjoyEP]

So, this debate has been waged on the CD Forums before...I think it is quite logical for many folks - such as you are experiencing - to pit these towns against one another as possible relo spots. They have more in common - in overall generalities especially - than many realize.

Tucson and Albuquerque are actually quite similar in many basic, overall ways. They both have a similar size (mid-sized cities with populations - metro-wise - in the 850K to 1million range). Both are desert, southwestern cities that average roughly the same amount of annual rainfall (7 to 9 inches) and sunshine (300+ days).

Both have good, close proximities to beautiful mountain ranges that dominate the landscape (in ABQ, the Sandia Mts., in Tucson, Mt. Lemon). Both have prominent military (Air Force) bases on the south ends of their boundaries. Both have strong ties culturally of course to Mexican / Hispanic citizens - Tucson being even closer to the border. Both are growing, emerging cities in the US Southwest.

However, they both have their distinctiveness from one another of course too.

As others have noted, weather is a key factor. Although on the surface, ABQ and Tucson have more similarities than many might note (both are arid, desert cities with an average of roughly the same amount of annual rainfall (7 to 9 inches) and sunshine (300+ days), Albuquerque is situated at an elevation of 5000 feet, whereas Tucson is at an altitude of what, 2000 feet?

Thus, Tucson's summers are broiling long and boiling hot - kind of a Phoenix Lite (although not too darn Lite); Albuquerque's summers transversely are sizzling at times but overall quite manageable outside of maybe mid-May through mid-July...they are much shorter than Tucson's. In Tucson, days of 112 degree highs will be in play. In ABQ, a high of about 102 (at that) is about the most you'll generally ever have to reckon with.

Transversely, ABQ's winters are indeed colder than Tucson's, although with me hailing from Wisconsin, "colder" is a quite subjective term and one that I struggle with pronouncing in the same paragraph as ABQ. ABQ's winters are as brief - if not moreso - than its summers - and the average high in winter is a (bone-chilling; .......yes, that is said in jest) 50 degrees. Take 50 degrees with a strong high desert sunshine and things are downright pleasant and comfortable. Nights can get cold - lows of 15 or 20 degrees aren't terribly uncommon - but again, this is only for a few months, and frankly, 20 degrees at 2am isn't too bad when the afternoon preceeding it was 51.

You'll get some snow in ABQ - outside of the foothills of the mountains very little (average of 7 to 11 inches annually that typically melts very quickly - within hours or a day) - whereas most years you won't see any snow in Tucson.

I would sum things up - strictly in my own personal bias - this way:

ABQ has one of the best year-round climates in the US, and it has just about the most mild/temperate/warm climates of any you could have where you STILL HAVE FOUR SEASONS. Translation: Yes, ABQ gets winter, so it isn't LA. But then again, its "winter" pales in comparison to most anywhere north of it.

ABQ to me has a far superior spring, summer, and fall. Tucson has a far superior winter. I would say that 4.5 months of the year are superior in Tucson and 7.5 months are superior in ABQ.

Beyond that weather, ABQ has a more vibrant and growing local economy for the most part. The cost of living is better in ABQ. The proximity of ABQ to Santa Fe is a nice recreational getaway option. ABQ has two interstates (I-40 and 25) in comparison to Tucson's one (for great central access and getaway access if need be). Both have neat, unique distinct local Southwestern cultures but I would say ABQ's is more pure and distinct.

Tucson on the other hand has close proximity to a mammoth city (Phoenix) which is nice, dual airport choices (Tucson's or also Sky Harbor in PHX), tremendous winters, better gardening / landscaping varieties (including saguaros, many more palm trees, and citrus fruits), and better taxes.

To me, this one goes to Albuquerque fairly strongly (but only because ABQ is such a great town)...Tucson is a very nice town, too, but the LONG uncomfortable summers and the higher cost of living make, at least to me, ABQ the winner.

[vegaspilgrim]

According to weatherbase.com, Tucson actually gets approximately 12 inches of rain a year-- more than Albuquerque, just enough precipitation so that Tucson is technically considered semi-arid. Both central/northern NM and southern AZ are incredibly beautiful landscapes and it's impossible for me to pick and choose and say which one is "more" beautiful. Tucson's Sonoran desert I would argue is a little more "exotic" and definitely a tinge greener than the high Chihuahuan desert, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "better," I also agree with EnjoyEP in that I like both cities.

But here's one thing I can say: Tucson is not even on my list right now of potential places to live. Albuquerque is-- and it's #1 or #2 on that list, depending on which day it is.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Tucson and Albuquerque are actually quite similar in many basic, overall ways. They both have a similar size (mid-sized cities with populations - metro-wise - in the 850K to 1million range). Both are desert, southwestern cities that average roughly the same amount of annual rainfall (7 to 9 inches) and sunshine (300+ days).

Agreed. The exception is that Tucson actually has a metro population of slightly under 1.1 million. Tucson actually receives more rain than Albuquerque in an average year. Albuquerque's average rainfall is only 8.5 inches compared with Tucson's average 11.7 inches. The 3.2 inches makes a huge difference in the greenery of the desert around Tucson and the desert around Albuquerque. Although Tucson receives more average rainfall than Albuquerque, Tucson receives 85 percent of possible sunshine compared to 76 percent in Albuquerque.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Both have good, close proximities to beautiful mountain ranges that dominate the landscape (in ABQ, the Sandia Mts., in Tucson, Mt. Lemon). Both have prominent military (Air Force) bases on the south ends of their boundaries. Both have strong ties culturally of course to Mexican / Hispanic citizens - Tucson being even closer to the border. Both are growing, emerging cities in the US Southwest.

Agreed. Tucson is also surrounded by the Tucson, Rincon, and Santa Rita Mountains. In regard to the growth factor, Albuquerque proper is growing much faster than Tucson proper.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Albuquerque is situated at an elevation of 5000 feet, whereas Tucson is at an altitude of what, 2000 feet?

Tucson is at between 2300 and 2500 feet. Believe me, it makes a difference.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Thus, Tucson's summers are broiling long and boiling hot - kind of a Phoenix Lite (although not too darn Lite); Albuquerque's summers transversely are sizzling at times but overall quite manageable outside of maybe mid-May through mid-July...they are much shorter than Tucson's. In Tucson, days of 112 degree highs will be in play. In ABQ, a high of about 102 (at that) is about the most you'll generally ever have to reckon with.

Tucson's summers are significantly cooler than Phoenix's. Tucson's highest average daytime temperature is 102 and the warmest average overnight low is 74. Phoenix's highest average daytime temperature is 106 with the warmest average overnight low at 84. Although that might not sound like much of a difference, consider this: Phoenix recorded 64 days with a high temperature of or greater than 105, Tucson recorded 17 such days. I am not denying that Tucson has torrid summers, however they're not nearly on the same magnitude as Phoenix.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

You'll get some snow in ABQ - outside of the foothills of the mountains very little (average of 7 to 11 inches annually that typically melts very quickly - within hours or a day) - whereas most years you won't see any snow in Tucson.

Tucson's mountains receive snow, as well. Mount Lemmon has an average annual snowfall of between 180 and 200 inches at its summit. It's also home to the southernmost ski area in the continental United States. Keep in mind the summit of Mount Lemmon is only an hour's drive from Tucson.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

I would sum things up - strictly in my own personal bias - this way:

ABQ has one of the best year-round climates in the US, and it has just about the most mild/temperate/warm climates of any you could have where you STILL HAVE FOUR SEASONS. Translation: Yes, ABQ gets winter, so it isn't LA. But then again, its "winter" pales in comparison to most anywhere north of it.

I'll agree with you again on Albuquerque having one of the better climates in the United States. There are areas towns (Sierra Vista and Willcox), not too far to the east of Tucson, which have summers that have high temperatures that are almost exactly on par with Albuquerque, while feature winter temperatures that are about 10 degrees warmer than Albuquerque.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

ABQ to me has a far superior spring, summer, and fall. Tucson has a far superior winter. I would say that 4.5 months of the year are superior in Tucson and 7.5 months are superior in ABQ.

I would have to disagree here. I would personally prefer autumns and springs with temperatures that are usually between 75 and 90 than around 60 or 65.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Beyond that weather, ABQ has a more vibrant and growing local economy for the most part. The cost of living is better in ABQ. The proximity of ABQ to Santa Fe is a nice recreational getaway option. ABQ has two interstates (I-40 and 25) in comparison to Tucson's one (for great central access and getaway access if need be). Both have neat, unique distinct local Southwestern cultures but I would say ABQ's is more pure and distinct.

Albuquerque does have a much faster growing economy than Tucson. That is part of the reason why Albuquerque is growing much faster than Tucson. Tucson is near its own recreation such as Mount Lemmon, Tubac, Tombstone, Saguaro National Park.

Tucson does technically have two freeways (I-10 and I-19). However, I-19 is only useful for those on the southwestern side of the city.

I am not sure if I agree about Albuquerque's Southwestern culture being more distinct than Tucson's. I would argue that Tucson embraces its Southwestern culture very strongly. Architecture, art, the environment, and Hispanic and Native American culture are strongly embraced in Tucson. Phoenix, on the other hand, seems more interested in becoming an extension of Southern California than part of the Southwest.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Tucson on the other hand has close proximity to a mammoth city (Phoenix) which is nice, dual airport choices (Tucson's or also Sky Harbor in PHX), tremendous winters, better gardening / landscaping varieties (including saguaros, many more palm trees, and citrus fruits), and better taxes.

Agreed. Tucson does have a sales tax of more than 8 percent. Not sure what the sales tax is like in New Mexico.

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

To me, this one goes to Albuquerque fairly strongly (but only because ABQ is such a great town)...Tucson is a very nice town, too, but the LONG uncomfortable summers and the higher cost of living make, at least to me, ABQ the winner.

According to C-D Tucson actually has a slightly lower COL than Albuquerque ($184,700 vs. $184,000).

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Grass4

Hi all,

New Yorker here, looking to move to an affordable, warmer city with lots of outdoors type stuff and plenty of arts/culture readily available. I'm 23 and will likely be working as a freelancer.

My dad currently lives in Tucson, which I've visited enough times to get a good feel for. I was wondering how Albuquerque compares.

Traffic-wise, people, food, arts/culture, cost of living, size of city, and anything else you can think of.

I think the comparison could give me a pretty good idea of what ABQ is all about.

Of course, I'll be visiting soon anyways

I'd take Albuquerque. I have my issues with the crime and traffic in certain areas at certain times, but every time I visit my friends in Tucson, I'm just happy to return home to my current home. It's better here on both those fronts.

For outdoors, Albuquerque is much better by a long shot. From Tucson, you'll have a substantial day trip to find anything that isn't infested by tourists with no appreciation for the fact that "roughing it" is a courtesy to your surroundings... not just a trendy sacrifice. Of course, I say that as a Northwesterner at heart, and am therefore "spoiled". Funny that the meaning of that word would be turned around like that. I'm no hippie, but people who litter, can't bury their excrement, and jeer at all hours are my motivation to backpack as opposed to car camp. I'm glad plenty of "remote" and "strenuous" excursions are easily accessible from here on the vehicular front.

From Albuquerque, US-550 and US-285 guarantee more of the terrain and culture I learned to love as a Northwesterner... within an easy day trip. Bikers and hikers respect their respective right-of-ways, 4-byers can enjoy themselves where they're at but can just as easily be escaped, etc. All these balances are privileges that I believe come with our enjoyment of unadultered or accomodating surroundings. From Taos to the non-tourist parts of Colorado, you can find yourself an awesome excursion.

For arts/culture, Albuquerque and Santa Fe provide quite the mecca. Although the university presence in Tucson makes this rather equal, especially since Santa Fe is... well... exclusive isn't quite the right word and repulsive sends the wrong message... I've got friends who are into the art scene, and they just went back to Seattle... and Vegas. Yeah... Vegas... for a better art scene... my only question is "what happened?". Maybe "exclusive" means a great filter, but all I see is that same b.s. we have to entertain in the political scene for the past 50-some-odd years. Crap qualifies and real quality gets shunned 'cause quality can't kiss... okay, yes... I've been drinking.. but that's the way to get honest advice in some contexts.

Altogether, and anyway, if outdoors are even a piece of the question, Albuquerque leaves you a lot better off. Even the food here has expanded my culinary repetoire... to dishes that are quite easy and cooperative compared to many Indian and Italian dishes, nicely.

Sandia is comparable to Mt. Lemmon in that it's a montane "oasis" of sorts, but it's a LOT better. Not even on the tourist front so much as just the seasonal accessibility, and from here it is just a short trip.

[rybert]

ABQ!

No need to explain why.

[ABQSunseeker]

As much as I give ABQ an edge, I have to say in Tucson's favor is that its plant life is more interesting (to me anyway). I just love the saguaros, desert palms, and large array of cactus. They create an exotic, unique landscape which can be very appealing.