Albuquerque sports (Las Cruces, Santa Fe, Las Vegas: sales, how much, new home)

[observe]

Albuquerque has several minor league sports ...AAA Baseball, Isotopes; NBA D-league, Thunderbirds; and CHL, Scorpions. Which is great for a city it's size.
However what do you think the time line for one of the Major League sports to come to town is?

[finmqa1]

I would say another 10 to 15 years. I personally think our best shot would be the NFL. With only 8 home games I don't think we would have a problem filling a stadium of 60-80,000 seats.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by finmqa1

I would say another 10 to 15 years. I personally think our best shot would be the NFL. With only 8 home games I don't think we would have a problem filling a stadium of 60-80,000 seats.

I would agree for the most part with finmqa1.

10-to-15 years sounds reasonable to me.

I think the biggest obstacle - which people really need to realize - is facilities. There are no facilities currently in Albuquerque that would accomodate NFL football, MLB baseball, NBA basketball / NHL hockey. Obviously, an 17,000+ arena would need to be built for the NBA / NHL with suites, etc., or a 45,000+ stadium for MLB, or a 60,000+ stadium for the NFL.

The way many here think...residents as well as elected leaders...I think the politics of getting one of these buildings built (including financing it / landspace, etc.) would be a huge obstacle. And, even if / when the approval was given to build, it would take a few years to actually build the facility.

Another obstacle is that most leagues are currently saturated (eg: not looking to expand). Thus, Albuquerque would need to lure a franchise from a different city, which happens, but isn't the easiest thing both financially or politically often to do (especially in the city where the franchise is leaving, and in the league itself).

And surely, Albuquerque really would need the metro area to be in the 1.5 million range population-wise - at least - to really be a serious player for a franchise with the competition out there from bigger current cities that do not have particular sports (Portland only has NBA, Las Vegas - despite the gambling issue - has over 1.5 million, etc.); I am not saying this isn't possible at all for Albuquerque - a city this size growing at this rate in a region with no nearby competition (thus it could be a "state" team - even with support from El Paso) - it all is favorable for Albuquerque.

It is just extremely difficult to land a "major league" team, and if Albuquerque is serious about contending for one, once the metro area hits 1-million or so...they seriously would need to consider building a facility of cutting edge / major league caliber to hope to woo a franchise over.

Right now...people wouldn't be interested in looking at ABQ to relocate their franchise, because there would be no where for them to play.

While the NFL would make some sense, it might be the hardest big league sport to land. Due to the NFL's success, there are not a great deal of franchises in cities looking to relocate, and the few that might be...there is always the Los Angeles factor looming. Plus, the facility needing to be built would need to be the biggest, most-revenue oriented due to the relative few games played.

I think MLB or the NBA might be more realistic in the shorter term for Albuquerque. There are more fledgling or financially tight NBA / MLB teams that might be looking for new homes, and this market has shown an ability - at least in spurts - to support baseball and basketball (great Triple AAA baseball history and - in recent past - great support of UNM basketball).

(Having said all of that, having lived for many years in an MLB city and having gone to many, many MLB games every year, I personally prefer Isotopes games. The tickets are incredibly cheaper with parking, and we have a world-class minor league stadium here in Albuquerque. Plus, the seats you get here are closer and better than you would in an MLB park unless you are extremely well-off. I have more fun at Isotopes games with a Slammin' Amber than I generally ever did at an MLB game.)

[bigduly]

I think the city of albuquerque should consider a arena. I don't know if they are still trying to build it downtown. A arena that seats about 15000-20000 should be great for the city. This arena can host Arena Football, WNBA, or the UFC. I would really like to see the UFC in New Mexico.

[Chaparral]

I think a lot of this topic has already been covered in a previous thread ("Will there ever be a pro sports team in ABQ?"), but I'll chip in my two cents here...

I agree with finmqa1 as far as the time frame goes, but I think it'll be closer to 15 than 10 years. I also agree that ultimately, an NFL franchise has the best chance of surviving long term in ABQ. Only having to fill the stadium for a pro game 8 times (plus preseason) would be far easier to accomplish than 41-81 times a year with other sports. Especially when each game would become an event in itself which could draw from the entire region, including El Paso as EnjoyEP stated.

As far as an opportunity to land a top tier franchise goes, I certainly believe that ABQ will have the chance to land an NBA, NHL or MLS before an NFL one (assuming facilities are built/available). But knowing this town like I think I do, I don't see these other leagues surviving in ABQ long-term.

The scenario I could see would be good/great support at the start, but waning unless the team was very successful. But no team wins forever, and that is what would ultimately doom the franchise. The local passion for the NFL is the only thing I could see overcoming this dynamic. And ABQ won't be big enough to support an MLB team (the most expensive option) for at least 2 decades, at best.

As far as facilities go, we definitely have a long way to go. But many other potential sports franchise sites lack modern facilities as well. Assuming Marty gets the downtown arena built at a workable size for the pros (no guarantee there), then NHL and/or NBA becomes a possibility. The big ticket item, a pro-level stadium, is a chicken-and-egg situation. There is absolutely NO WAY a new stadium get built (current NFL minimum is 65,000 seats) unless a team is iron-clad locked-in to come to ABQ. Which then makes NM a hard sell, especially if another community builds one "in advance".

Lastly, I see the NFL expanding by a minimum of 4 teams and a maximum of 8 teams over the next 10-12 years, with 1-2 of those going to L.A. (the NFL just wants in there too bad). This estimate is based on the fact that the current NFL owners really like money, which I think is a fairly safe assumption.

The last franchise fee paid to the NFL (split amongst ownership) was $700 million, and any new franchises would have to pay fees in the same range, if not exceeding $1 billion. That means if NM/ABQ is serious about the NFL, there will likely be a spot to go for, but we need to do some serious ground work/planning in advance. Unfortunately, this has not been ABQ's strong suit...

Chap

[_yb]

The NFL is dependent on TV monies so I really don't think NM could ever generate a big share of the TV markets. We are kind of pinned in by Denver, Dallas and Phoenix.

[observe]

Originally Posted by _yb

The NFL is dependent on TV monies so I really don't think NM could ever generate a big share of the TV markets. We are kind of pinned in by Denver, Dallas and Phoenix.

If thats the case, Albuquerque is still ahead of some major league markets.

TV Markets
45. Albuquerque
46. Oklahoma City (possible future NBA)
47. Greensboro
48. Louisville
49. Buffalo (NFL)
50. Jacksonville (NFL)
52. Austin
54. New Orleans (NFL,NBA)
other regional
70. Tucson
99. El Paso/Las Cruces

TV market size does matter however, the corporate market holds more weight. And Albuquerque still needs to become a bigger player in that market.

[councilor j]

NFL exists in Green Bay which has a population of under 200,000 not sure about the metro though,but Im sure Albq could fill 65,000 seats 8 times a year with no problem,you will have people make the trip from all around New Mexico on Sundays to see NFL football.I dont think a MLB team would make it,I think the baseball era somewhat is slowly dying, but I love the Isotopes games and their only 12,000 to fill,so that works out good for Albq.Maybe the NBA would work as long as the team wins,I can see the fans giving up on an NBA team when they start losing season after season,I still think that Lobo basketball has the advantage,but the NBA would also be great.I wouldnt try for an NHL team,New Mexicans are not too familiar with hockey,the Scorpions are the better choice.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by councilor j

NFL exists in Green Bay which has a population of under 200,000 not sure about the metro though

I do have to add a bit to what councilor j noted...as I hail from WI for 26+ years before moving down here...Green Bay - with the Packers - is a complete abberation.

Any other city/town that size could not host any professional sport in today's day and age (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) - including Green Bay with any sport other than the Packers. The Packers' franchise is just so unique...they draw so well based on their storied/legendary history and thus intertwinement with the town of near-mind boggling proportions. They also draw a huge following from Milwaukee - a city metro of 1.5+ million two hours south. (Without Milwaukee's support - as much as the good folks of Green Bay may hate to hear it - the Pack couldn't exist).

Even with Milwaukee though, the Pack wouldn't be able to exist if - say - there was no history of an NFL team in that market and the NFL just decided to put an expansion team in Green Bay. It is only through years of legend-building and reputation building nationally - which started well before sports were as trillion-dollar businesses as they are now - to where the Packers have been able to exist and thrive like they do now.

Typically, if you aren't looking at AT LEAST a metro area of 1.5+ million, having big-league professional sports in your town is going to be a challenge (look at the Minnesota Twins...the Twin Cities is a near-3 million metro area, and yet the Twins - for all of their successes on the field - were nearly CONTRACTED 4 or 5 years ago due to being "too small market" of a team and not being able to get a new stadium built. Big league sports are great...but if the market isn't a) big enough, and b) financially supportive enough...they can be a huge challenge for a city to realistically support).

I do have to say also in addition to some of these other great posts...

The NFL, while certainly the most popular big league pro sport currently, is still the toughest of the four big sports to financially support in a community. It would seem to conflict logic, needing to fill up a stadium only eight times per year versus 41 or 81 times (although remember too...it isn't just eight times...it is a few exhibition games and also possible playoffs)...look at the challenges the Cardinals have had in Phoenix (a metro area currently five-times the size of Albuquerque with Tucson...a metro area of nearly another million, just two hours south of Phoenix). Look also at the challenges the NFL had in Los Angeles, the 2nd biggest city in the U.S.

The NFL thrives in addition to ticket sales - luxury suite sales (and very high-end priced items for game days), merchandise sales, TV ratings and sales, a revenue-generating large NFL-caliber stadium, salaries for a roster of 53-players instead of 12 or 25, etc. There is a whole lot more to supporting an NFL franchise financially successfully than just filling a stadium 8-times a year.

Also...while all big league professional sports tickets are EXPENSIVE (something we in Albuquerque are not used to currently)...NFL tickets are very, very expensive. An issue could be I can see already with folks in this town is that they say now "yeah, I would buy season tickets" but then when they see just how much an NFL season ticket actually costs...they may have a different tune.

I am not trying to be a gloomy gus, and hey, I would be more excited than anyone if Albuquerque could land an NFL franchise - or any big league sport. However, I just from experience know that while NBA and MLB franchises aren't exactly easy to support either for cities, NFL franchises are really a huge challenge, even though it would seem that with a smaller amount of home games, it might be easier for a town to support - it is not...it is the toughest sport fiscally speaking to support.

[observe]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

I do have to add a bit to what councilor j noted...as I hail from WI for 26+ years before moving down here...Green Bay - with the Packers - is a complete abberation.

Any other city/town that size could not host any professional sport in today's day and age (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) - including Green Bay with any sport other than the Packers. The Packers' franchise is just so unique...they draw so well based on their storied/legendary history and thus intertwinement with the town of near-mind boggling proportions. They also draw a huge following from Milwaukee - a city metro of 1.5+ million two hours south. (Without Milwaukee's support - as much as the good folks of Green Bay may hate to hear it - the Pack couldn't exist).

Even with Milwaukee though, the Pack wouldn't be able to exist if - say - there was no history of an NFL team in that market and the NFL just decided to put an expansion team in Green Bay. It is only through years of legend-building and reputation building nationally - which started well before sports were as trillion-dollar businesses as they are now - to where the Packers have been able to exist and thrive like they do now.

Typically, if you aren't looking at AT LEAST a metro area of 1.5+ million, having big-league professional sports in your town is going to be a challenge (look at the Minnesota Twins...the Twin Cities is a near-3 million metro area, and yet the Twins - for all of their successes on the field - were nearly CONTRACTED 4 or 5 years ago due to being "too small market" of a team and not being able to get a new stadium built. Big league sports are great...but if the market isn't a) big enough, and b) financially supportive enough...they can be a huge challenge for a city to realistically support).

I do have to say also in addition to some of these other great posts...

The NFL, while certainly the most popular big league pro sport currently, is still the toughest of the four big sports to financially support in a community. It would seem to conflict logic, needing to fill up a stadium only eight times per year versus 41 or 81 times (although remember too...it isn't just eight times...it is a few exhibition games and also possible playoffs)...look at the challenges the Cardinals have had in Phoenix (a metro area currently five-times the size of Albuquerque with Tucson...a metro area of nearly another million, just two hours south of Phoenix). Look also at the challenges the NFL had in Los Angeles, the 2nd biggest city in the U.S.

The NFL thrives in addition to ticket sales - luxury suite sales (and very high-end priced items for game days), merchandise sales, TV ratings and sales, a revenue-generating large NFL-caliber stadium, salaries for a roster of 53-players instead of 12 or 25, etc. There is a whole lot more to supporting an NFL franchise financially successfully than just filling a stadium 8-times a year.

Also...while all big league professional sports tickets are EXPENSIVE (something we in Albuquerque are not used to currently)...NFL tickets are very, very expensive. An issue could be I can see already with folks in this town is that they say now "yeah, I would buy season tickets" but then when they see just how much an NFL season ticket actually costs...they may have a different tune.

I am not trying to be a gloomy gus, and hey, I would be more excited than anyone if Albuquerque could land an NFL franchise - or any big league sport. However, I just from experience know that while NBA and MLB franchises aren't exactly easy to support either for cities, NFL franchises are really a huge challenge, even though it would seem that with a smaller amount of home games, it might be easier for a town to support - it is not...it is the toughest sport fiscally speaking to support.

Good post, while I agree with you that Albuquerque is not ready to support an NFL team. Something that people have to consider is that the Cardinals never tried to identify themselves with the city of Pheonix or the state of Arizona. When a team re-locates to a different city, lots of times it keeps the same name and logos etc. The city which the team re-locates to never really feels like it's theirs. The team never had their own stadium until this year and look what happened to attendance, now Pheonix/Arizona feel like the Cardinals are actually theirs.
Another factor is large corporations......which Albuquerque has some but not quite enough, don't fool yourself the money to support the team is here however it is with people and companies that would not support/funnel it through the franchise.
I think 10-15 years when the MSA population including Santa Fe, will be over 1.5 million. even then, who knows if any teams will be available or if any of the leagues will expand, the competition to lure one will be greater than ever.