Mesa del Sol "Planned" Community (camper, associations)

[Mike Horrell]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Mike?

Is your 'w' key broken?

It's having its tires rotated...

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Mike?

Is your 'w' key broken?

Better answer (though obscure) would have been:

"Yes it is. Got this keyboard Government Surplus in 2001 and that was the only thing wrong with it."

[Mike Horrell]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Better answer (though obscure) would have been:

"Yes it is. Got this keyboard Government Surplus in 2001 and that was the only thing wrong with it."

BWAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[karmathecat]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Better answer (though obscure) would have been:

"Yes it is. Got this keyboard Government Surplus in 2001 and that was the only thing wrong with it."

No... better answer would have been

"Yes it is. Got this keyboard Government Surplus in 2001 and that cas the only thing crong with it."

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by karmathecat

... and that cas the only thing crong with it."

Oh! Oh! GOOD CATCH! You've added some joy to my day!!

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

*University Blvd

University does not get you out of Mesa del Sol. You have to take other streets.
It would be nice if you could go directly N. to Gibson, but they would have to do the
emminant domain thing on some 30 houses in the Kirkland Community ( residentail
area just S. of Gibson between the highway and the airport.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

*Bobby Foster Road

(1) - For those that don't know, this is a connecting road about 1.5 miles S. of Rio Bravo.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

*Mesa Del Sol Blvd Interchange

(2) - For those that don't know, this is road not yet built slightly over mile S. of Bobby Foster Road.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

*Hawking Dr North

For those that don't know, this is a road, just E. of University heading North directly into
Tijeras Arroyo that would be completely useless for getting into and out of Mesa del Sol
unless a helpful and convenient tunnel is dug under the Albuquerque International Airport.

You're grasping at straws here.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

*University Blvd S connector to Broadway Exit

Do you mean Rio Bravo?
(3) - For those that don't know, Rio Bravo is the last exit on I-25 South
before it bends and hits the Broadway exit before crossing the river.

(1) & (2) & (3) all dump you on I-25 which is already really backed up
heading into Albuquerque. I thought you were going to give me some hope here.

For anyone who wants a preview of what Mesa del Sol ingress and egress will
look like, check out Ahwatukee, a Phoenix neighborhood just West of Chandler and
North of the Salt River Indian Nation. It is an area a little larger than Mesa del Sol
with a current population of about 100k. It currently had three ways out onto I-10
heading into Phoenix that are all jam-packed during shopping and commute hours.
Once you get onto the 12-lane freeway, it's a parking lot.

Although Ahwatukee is a nice pedestrian-orienated community with nice views
and great shopping, many avoid it for the bottleneck problem.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

You may remember (actually, you're probably too new) that Rio Rancho was
once only accessible by taking Alameda, as PdN was not yet constructed.

I lived here a number of years before it was built.

Things would be much worse without PdN, but the commute from the West side
has only gotten worse despite PdN + new Alameda bridge + more I-40 lanes
and a wonderful new interchange at Coors + Montaño bridge.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Lessee.. Taylor Ranch has two, maybe four bridges, all of which are pretty
inadequate. Coors Blvd is pretty inadequate.. I'd say, yeah... much easier.

Good. Then we are in agreement here.

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Feast your eyes on [this] (Mesa del Sol Community Master Plan)

Thanks a lot. Lots of people with no data to back them up, will
post links to some jillion-page document that's so large that it
is impossible to fully digest in less than, oh say, ... a jillion hours.
( What? You mean you don't have this document memorized? )

Here is some verbage from the document:
Streets at Mesa del Sol will be designed to be amenable to future
“high capacity transit” routes. The right-of-ways will be dedicated
to accommodate light rail or other transit modes.

Most of the search results from "rail" come up with "trail" - heh.

All of the search results talk only with words like "amenable" and "accomodate" -
wholly leaving the actual implementation to some 'future entity' to worry about.
A mass-transit system for Mesa del Sol is not even a gleam in someone's eye.

Don't get me wrong here. I like Mesa del Sol. At least someone is trying to do
something nice. As I've stated before, people have right to live where they want and
how they want even if what they are doing is contributing to (gasp) "SPRAWL!!"
Mesa del Sol is sprawl. All of it is sprawl. I have no problem with it in that people are
coming to Albuquerque and thus it's going to "sprawl."

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Basis?

The current drive from downtown Albuquerque to Mesa del Sol is wonderfully free of traffic
lights. Wait till a number of businesses and residents demand egress to the main thoroughfares.
Since you have such a long memory; remember how (mostly) free of traffic lights the drive up
the hill and past Intel used to be when one was going from Corrales to Southern Blvd?

I'm just saying that the commute - by car ( out of Mesa del Sol ) - is going to be
worse than the current commute - by car - out of Rio Rancho. Of course, by then,
the commute - by car - out of Rio Rancho will be far worse at that time.

It will never get better than it is now. Even with a 50% conversion to rail commuting, it doesn't get
faster and better. You just spend time waiting on a rail platform and standing in crowds on and off
the train. Don't believe me? Visit Japan where the best rail transit in the world can be found. Go to
any city in the world with a highly developed rail and subway system. It's just as bad, just different.

You can't engineer a good commute. You can only locate intelligently.

[Mike Horrell]

Originally Posted by mortimer

It will never get better than it is now. Even with
a 50% conversion to rail commuting, it doesn't get faster and better. You just
spend time waiting on a rail platform and standing in crowds on and off the
train. Don't believe me? Visit Japan where the best rail transit in the world
can be found. Go to any city in the world with a highly developed rail and
subway system.

It's the same, just different.

We lived very neat the Braddock Road Metro station and for almost 20 years my
wife took the Metro to her office a couple blocks from the White House. It generally
took her a bit over an hour to go about 5 miles door-to-door. About $5 a day fair..

There were extended times when I worked fairly near her and I'd drive dropping
her off on the way. About 25 minutes, $2 in gas and $10 parking; $12 total or
about $6 a head and over 1 person hour (see? I can be PC) combined time savings
per day.

Public transit, even light rail, is not the panacea many claim it to be.. it's just
another option.

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Oh! Oh! GOOD CATCH! You've added some joy to my day!!


University does not get you out of Mesa del Sol. You have to take other streets.
It would be nice if you could go directly N. to Gibson, but they would have to do the
emminant domain thing on some 30 houses in the Kirkland Community ( residentail
area just S. of Gibson between the highway and the airport.

Kirkland? Now you're just doing that to make people mad.
University to Randolph to Yale.. just because you don't like it doesn't make it not a way out.

(1) - For those that don't know, this is a connecting road about 1.5 miles S. of Rio Bravo.

(2) - For those that don't know, this is road not yet built slightly over mile S. of Bobby Foster Road.

For those that don't know, this is a road, just E. of University heading North directly into
Tijeras Arroyo that would be completely useless for getting into and out of Mesa del Sol
unless a helpful and convenient tunnel is dug under the Albuquerque International Airport.

You're grasping at straws here.

You said only 1-2 ways out existed. I pointed out counterexamples. They're hardly straws.

Do you mean Rio Bravo?
(3) - For those that don't know, Rio Bravo is the last exit on I-25 South
before it bends and hits the Broadway exit before crossing the river.

Uhhh, no.. if I meant that I'd actually mention Rio Bravo. It's a road that links far southern University Blvd. to the Broadway exit for I-25 (215 I think). Next to Isleta's Hard Rock thinggy.

(1) & (2) & (3) all dump you on I-25 which is already really backed up
heading into Albuquerque. I thought you were going to give me some hope here.

Bobby Foster doesn't connect to I-25, other than a no-access overpass.

Hawking provides access to the base's south entrance, which is a VERY useful way to go if you work on base.

For anyone who wants a preview of what Mesa del Sol ingress and egress will
look like, check out Ahwatukee, a Phoenix neighborhood just West of Chandler and
North of the Salt River Indian Nation. It is an area a little larger than Mesa del Sol
with a current population of about 100k. It currently had three ways out onto I-10
heading into Phoenix that are all jam-packed during shopping and commute hours.
Once you get onto the 12-lane freeway, it's a parking lot.

Am there all the time. I like Ahwatukee. I-10's parking lot mess is a little different, and other than rush hour, it's not bad at all.

Ahwatukee has been referred to as "The world's largest cul-de-sac". There are no real jobs base in Ahwatukee, though there are many jobs across the 10 in Chandler.

Although Ahwatukee is a nice pedestrian-orienated community with nice views
and great shopping, many avoid it for the bottleneck problem.

I-10's bottleneck is largely artificial. The completed loop 202 which is supposed to relieve this issue is held up in court. Further, there's absolutely no comparison between the stretches of I-25 and I-10 in question when it comes to quantity of 24/7 through traffic.

Thanks a lot. Lots of people with no data to back them up, will
post links to some jillion-page document that's so large that it
is impossible to fully digest in less than, oh say, ... a jillion hours.
( What? You mean you don't have this document memorized? )

Here is some verbage from the document:
Streets at Mesa del Sol will be designed to be amenable to future
“high capacity transit” routes. The right-of-ways will be dedicated
to accommodate light rail or other transit modes.

Most of the search results from "rail" come up with "trail" - heh.

All of the search results talk only with words like "amenable" and "accomodate" -
wholly leaving the actual implementation to some 'future entity' to worry about.
A mass-transit system for Mesa del Sol is not even a gleam in someone's eye.

You said no plans existed. I provided counterexample. "Not even a gleam" seems pretty far-fetched if you refer to mention of future accommodations.

I'm just saying that the commute - by car - is going to be worse than the current
commute - by car - out of Rio Rancho. Of course, by then, the commute - by car -
out of Rio Rancho will be far worse at that time.

Don't know what time you mean. I-25's got lots of room for expansion, and even though that means a bunch more cars will fill that expansion, the room is there; unlike Rio Rancho's path into the city.

MdS is not a bedroom community the way Ahwatukee is a bedroom community. Much more of its traffic will stay internal.

It will never get better than it is now.

That's the spirit!

[pakofan]

soooooooooooooooo, if i were looking for mixed-use neighborhoods, where should I go and see to check out in terms of neghborhoods?
I don't want to make this into a figh of whether or not mesa del sol is a good neighborhood

[JBM]

Mesa Del Sol I wouldn't really call a neighborhood just yet..... That being said, I'd look towards Nob Hill west towards Downtown and the country club neighborhoods.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by pakofan

I don't want to make this into a fight of whether
or not mesa del sol is a good neighborhood

Nobody lives there now.

We are just fighting over what they should be doing to
make it one in the future. It will be built. We are just having
a debate/fight over how it should be done.

We know what's best, after all. We should have been consulted
in the first place.