Boycotts In Response To Controversial Immigration Enforcement Bill (house, income)

[ralthor]

Originally Posted by RandomName958

which in the world we actually live in means squat. african americans have been stopped for decades for phantom driving infractions. they can also question brown people for loitering if they happen to be on a sidewalk.

besides, that's only one problem with this law...

Not to make a comment on the AZ law one way or the other (I really could care less either way they can do whatever they want in AZ).

You have a complaint with racial profiling, racist cops, and a legal system that allows an office to arrest anyone they want with impunity. None of that is a problem with 'this law.'

[RandomName958]

Originally Posted by ralthor

Not to make a comment on the AZ law one way or the other (I really could care less either way they can do whatever they want in AZ).

You have a complaint with racial profiling, racist cops, and a legal system that allows an office to arrest anyone they want with impunity. None of that is a problem with 'this law.'

how do you get to that conclusion? this law not only allows, but requires the police to detain anyone who can't prove their legal status on the spot. that's a problem. not for white people. but for brown people who happen to be citizens or legal residents of this county.

[thelazyone]

Originally Posted by berncohomes

His point is that the bill specifically prohibits law enforcement stopping someone just to check their immigration status.

Thank you...

[ralthor]

Umm because as others have said they can't do spot checks.

[RandomName958]

a) we both know that's bs in the real world.

b) you're ignoring the main problem with this law. for the sake of argument, say the police did have some minor reason to question someone. let's just say a brown man was standing on a sidewalk, waiting for his ride. oops, he's loitering. it's now perfectly legal for the officer to stop him and question his legal status in this country. and for the sake of argument, let's say he was born here, but can't prove it. now the officer is required to detain him until he can prove his status. do you really not see a problem here?

[karmathecat]

Originally Posted by berncohomes

His point is that the bill specifically prohibits law enforcement stopping someone just to check their immigration status.

Right. So let's say you're driving in AZ and you have a broken tail light and the local police pull you over. You produce your out of state driver's license and your proof of insurance and the police normally would likely give you a warning but might give you a ticket, they'd run your ID to make sure there are no outstanding warrants and they let you go, have a nice day.

Now, if they SUSPECT you are in the country illegally ( and they can't use JUST your race, or the language you speak, or ONE characteristic to make that suspicion but they can use some not-very-well-defined super secret cop hunch to guess you're illegally in the US ) you must prove that you are here in the US legally, either as a citizen, or a visitor with a valid visa or stamp in your passport or a legal resident with a green card or work or other visa. Most people in the US from some other land carry their paperwork with them.
It's the citizens who might be suspect who have a problem since most US citizens I know carry nothing with them unless they happen to come from one of the states that require proof of legal status to obtain a driver's license.

Why can't people see the potential here for lawful citizens to feel impact of these statutes?!?!?!

[RandomName958]

Originally Posted by karmathecat

Right. So let's say you're driving in AZ and you have a broken tail light and the local police pull you over. You produce your out of state driver's license and your proof of insurance and the police normally would likely give you a warning but might give you a ticket, they'd run your ID to make sure there are no outstanding warrants and they let you go, have a nice day.

Now, if they SUSPECT you are in the country illegally ( and they can't use JUST your race, or the language you speak, or ONE characteristic to make that suspicion but they can use some not-very-well-defined super secret cop hunch to guess you're illegally in the US ) you must prove that you are here in the US legally, either as a citizen, or a visitor with a valid visa or stamp in your passport or a legal resident with a green card or work or other visa. Most people in the US from some other land carry their paperwork with them.
It's the citizens who might be suspect who have a problem since most US citizens I know carry nothing with them unless they happen to come from one of the states that require proof of legal status to obtain a driver's license.

Why can't people see the potential here for lawful citizens to feel impact of these statutes?!?!?!

this is exactly the problem.

as for the reason some people won't acknowledge it, i think it has to do with the political climate in the country as a whole. the far right is irate that a democrat is president and won't give an inch in the face of reason and logic. and let's be honest, the fact that he's black is especially infuriating to a large segment of their base.

when they completely ignore valid points, all you can do is dismiss their misguided opinions and go about your way. it's a little like tea baggers protesting taxes after their taxes went down.

[ralthor]

Originally Posted by RandomName958

a) we both know that's bs in the real world.

b) you're ignoring the main problem with this law. for the sake of argument, say the police did have some minor reason to question someone. let's just say a brown man was standing on a sidewalk, waiting for his ride. oops, he's loitering. it's now perfectly legal for the officer to stop him and question his legal status in this country. and for the sake of argument, let's say he was born here, but can't prove it. now the officer is required to detain him until he can prove his status. do you really not see a problem here?

I didn't say anything about the law does not have any problems, all I said was that spot checks are not a problem because they are specifically banned. Saying this law is a problem because they will do spot checks is like saying laws guiding minimum sentencing for a crime are a problem because we know sometimes innocent people get convicted.

[karmathecat]

Originally Posted by RandomName958

this is exactly the problem.

as for the reason some people won't acknowledge it, i think it has to do with the political climate in the country as a whole. the far right is irate that a democrat is president and won't give an inch in the face of reason and logic. and let's be honest, the fact that he's black is especially infuriating to a large segment of their base.

when they completely ignore valid points, all you can do is dismiss their misguided opinions and go about your way. it's a little like tea baggers protesting taxes after their taxes went down.

Right. You still have large percentages of the population believing he's a socialist and/or Muslim and/or not a US Citizen.

Those are the people among the group applauding the AZ law.

[RandomName958]

Originally Posted by ralthor

I didn't say anything about the law does not have any problems, all I said was that spot checks are not a problem because they are specifically banned. Saying this law is a problem because they will do spot checks is like saying laws guiding minimum sentencing for a crime are a problem because we know sometimes innocent people get convicted.

that's a bit naive for the reason i've already stated. but that's the least of this laws problems, so there's no point beating that dead horse.

the major issue with this law is that it requires the police to detain anyone who can't prove they're here legally. i'm guessing you're white. so there's no danger to you personally. but half this state's legal population is not.

just imagine for a second that you're a US citizen of hispanic heritage. and you are driving to california to visit relatives. you get pulled over for going 5 mph over the speed limit.

if you were white, the officer would probably give you a warning and let you go. but today, you're not. you're brown and he demands proof that you're here legally. sorry, your new mexico driver's license won't work. so guess what? now you're in the back of the highway patrol car on your way to a detention center.

you now have to track down your birth certificate from jail. you could spend days, if not weeks locked up because of the color of your skin. does this sound like a minor problem? maybe it is since it doesn't apply to you. but you might be a little more sensitive to it if you knew that could be you sitting in a jail cell.