U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink > Alcoholic Beverages
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-02-2012, 06:47 PM
 
1,964 posts, read 4,585,880 times
Reputation: 1622

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
None of them spend enough time (or in some cases any!) on three wine regions poised to become major players over the next two decades, South Africa, Argentina, and Croatia. They also miss the boat on what I think is going to be the hottest wine region in the US in 15 years, Washington State.
For S. Africa, Argentina & Croatia, do you mean bulk wine players? The sub-$10/bottle market? Argentina is already there with Trapiche & Alamos. But I can't see S. Africa & Croatia reaching that level just because you need vast holdings of acreage on a large corporate scale and I don't think their property/estate rules & traditions are modern enough to accommodate this kind of large-scale agribusiness. And as for Washington, are you bullish because of global warming & rising temps in Napa/Sonoma/Santa Barbara? Is there a particular varietal or "style" that you see emerging?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-03-2012, 10:10 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,451,304 times
Reputation: 13016
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokingGun View Post
For S. Africa, Argentina & Croatia, do you mean bulk wine players? The sub-$10/bottle market? Argentina is already there with Trapiche & Alamos. But I can't see S. Africa & Croatia reaching that level just because you need vast holdings of acreage on a large corporate scale and I don't think their property/estate rules & traditions are modern enough to accommodate this kind of large-scale agribusiness. And as for Washington, are you bullish because of global warming & rising temps in Napa/Sonoma/Santa Barbara? Is there a particular varietal or "style" that you see emerging?

Anyone buying a book by MacNeil, J. Robinson, Parker, etc. is not going to be a novice looking for grocery store wine from mass market producers. If anything, that group will buy one of Andrea Immer's books which, while well written, are aimed at a different category of consumer. I was talking about becoming major players to collectors who have world-class wines in their collections who have begun to seek out wines from those viticulture regions in earnest over the past decade.

I'm speaking of the people who know the what the acronyms DRC, TCA, AVA, and CDP stand for. When I talk about up and coming wine regions I'm not referring to anything to do with the bulk production of swill into a bottle with a label that will appeal to the person perusing the grocery store shelves that doesn't know a Malbec from a Petite Verdot.

I'm referring to the grower producers who take care with their craft and strive to produce the best wine possible--the vintners who aim towards the collector or at least the consumer with a sophisticated palate. Those growers/vintners don't need a lot of land. Many that I buy from have less than 20 acres under vine. Many of the best wines comes from wineries who produce 1000 cases a year or less.

As to Washington, it's simple mathematics. Napa has priced itself out of the market. There's a reason that mailing lists that have been closed for years suddenly have openings and existing members are getting double allocations--and it's not that they are producing more wine. Add to that shifting palates and increasingly good winemaking, and Washington is today what Napa was in the early-90's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Wine Country
5,322 posts, read 6,396,368 times
Reputation: 9786
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Anyone buying a book by MacNeil, J. Robinson, Parker, etc. is not going to be a novice looking for grocery store wine from mass market producers. If anything, that group will buy one of Andrea Immer's books which, while well written, are aimed at a different category of consumer. I was talking about becoming major players to collectors who have world-class wines in their collections who have begun to seek out wines from those viticulture regions in earnest over the past decade.

I'm speaking of the people who know the what the acronyms DRC, TCA, AVA, and CDP stand for. When I talk about up and coming wine regions I'm not referring to anything to do with the bulk production of swill into a bottle with a label that will appeal to the person perusing the grocery store shelves that doesn't know a Malbec from a Petite Verdot.

I'm referring to the grower producers who take care with their craft and strive to produce the best wine possible--the vintners who aim towards the collector or at least the consumer with a sophisticated palate. Those growers/vintners don't need a lot of land. Many that I buy from have less than 20 acres under vine. Many of the best wines comes from wineries who produce 1000 cases a year or less.

As to Washington, it's simple mathematics. Napa has priced itself out of the market. There's a reason that mailing lists that have been closed for years suddenly have openings and existing members are getting double allocations--and it's not that they are producing more wine. Add to that shifting palates and increasingly good winemaking, and Washington is today what Napa was in the early-90's.

I agree that Washington is going to grow but it will never be Napa or Sonoma. The climate and soil are different and thats what will keep them from ever being in direct competition with those two places. Washington Chardonnay's are getting some recognition, but they have yet to really break out. In California wines are no bargain, thats for sure. But there is a reason they command the price that they do.
And its more than just the land prices.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2012, 06:02 PM
 
1,964 posts, read 4,585,880 times
Reputation: 1622
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
I was talking about becoming major players to collectors who have world-class wines in their collections who have begun to seek out wines from those viticulture regions in earnest over the past decade.

I'm speaking of the people who know the what the acronyms DRC, TCA, AVA, and CDP stand for. When I talk about up and coming wine regions I'm not referring to anything to do with the bulk production of swill into a bottle with a label that will appeal to the person perusing the grocery store shelves that doesn't know a Malbec from a Petite Verdot.

I'm referring to the grower producers who take care with their craft and strive to produce the best wine possible--the vintners who aim towards the collector or at least the consumer with a sophisticated palate......
If you're talking about big whales who drop thousands of dollars on cases for their cellars, then I would disagree that S. Africa, Argentina or Croatia will ever be on their radar in the next 20 years. For better or worse the market for high-end collectibles will be dominated by the Chinese & their insatiable appetite for luxury brands. It takes decades for a viticultural region to gain mass-market recognition & accompanying lofty prices. Even in locales with a long & storied tradition like Spain & Italy, very few producers command that kind of respect & attention from collectors, and certainly not to the degree of 1st growth Bdx or cult Napa cabs. I'll even go out on a limb and say that in 20 years there will be wine-growing areas in CHINA that are considered world-class and hunted down as trophies by collectors (mainly Chinese). I'm 95 points on that
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Wine Country
5,322 posts, read 6,396,368 times
Reputation: 9786
Lets hope the Chinese start making world class wines so they will stop buying up and jacking up the already astronomical prices on California and French wines. Its a nice dream anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
284 posts, read 784,612 times
Reputation: 111
Frank Schoonmaker's Encyclopedia of Wine (not sure if it's still in print)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink > Alcoholic Beverages
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:31 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top