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Like so many others, Bud does a terrific job with their product. simple, clean, semi-dry beer, with no skunk
I was wrong. I had some Budweiser from a can this weekend & want to lower my praise somewhat.
Bud from a can = ok to a hair better than average. Not worth it for the cost.
Bud from a bottle = good & much better than average in its class.
What a difference canned compared to glass makes for Bud. A lot of beers are better in cans (Sierra Nevada torpedo extra IPA, Heineken), but the extra 10 cents for bottles for a 12 pack of Budweiser makes a big improvement.
That is cool and all, but while craft beer is enjoying healthy growth rates, Budweiser has went from the number 1 selling beer to barely relevant. They have went from selling 50 million barrels a year in the late 80's to only 16 million in 2013.
That is a 68% drop in sales over a couple of decades. Over the last decade, craft brewing has seen a 10.9% increase in sales. Budweiser now makes up less than 7 percent of the market, while craft brewing makes up 7.8 percent.
This seems less impressive/relevant until you remember that AB is spending nearly 10 million dollars to attack craft brewing, while simultaneously spending millions of dollars acquiring craft competitors. It kinda reaks of desperation.
Even though you have some points in your posts, which are seemingly coated in a lot of insecurity/hostility towards ABInbev... Like seriously, did they "treat you badly" business wise or something? How can you be taken seriously after you say this??? A barely relevant beer to you means having about the same market share as every single craft beer???? Sounds like all the individual craft beers are way, way less than "barely relevant" by your definition...
Even though you have some points in your posts, which are seemingly coated in a lot of insecurity/hostility towards ABInbev...
No insecurity, hostility... sure. I think you are focusing on emotion to refute what I say because you can't do it with facts or figures.
Yeah, I do have hostility as a beer lover towards a company that buys craft breweries and slams craft brewers. I do have hostility towards a company that has told retailers that they will use their distribution system to make their life as an alcohol retailer harder if they continue to carry competing brands.
Insecurity doesn't look like a poster on the internet compiling the ad they played, the respones, and related facts and figures, it looks like a company spending nearly 10 million dollars to slam people for drinking better beer than what they offer.
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Like seriously, did they "treat you badly" business wise or something?
No, they treat smaller beer companies and retailers badly. I am a fan of smaller beer companies and independent retailers.
I see that at this point in the post, you are still relying completely on ad hominem attacks rather than refuting anything that I have said... to borrow a quote from somebody... How can you be taken seriously after you make a post that is 100% ad hominem attack?
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How can you be taken seriously after you say this???
Oh look, more attacking me while still refusing to refute anything I said, it is funny that you would judge me for posting facts and figures as being insecure/hostile... would you call yourself immature since you spend more time trying to attack my character rather than actually providing facts, figures, or evidence to prove me wrong?
I would.
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A barely relevant beer to you means having about the same market share as every single craft beer????
First, I have seen conflicting numbers, I chose the ones that give craft brewing the least advantage, but the Wall Street Journal has said that craft beer makes up as much as 14% of the market as of last November. So that would be double the market share of Budwieser, but let's keep the 7.8% number for arguments sake. The point is that you are looking at this without any context... just numbers.
Craft brewing does not have a millionth of the marketing budget that Budweiser has, but collectively, craft brewers are selling more beer despite spending, collectively, almost nothing in comparison.
Also, craft brewing is on a massive upswing, while Budweiser is on an even bigger downswing. Craft brewers are growing their market, they are winning over Budweiser despite being more expensive, having less marketing and brand recognition, and less market coverage.
Budweiser has lost 68% of it's business in the last 3 decades. If you look at them in context, relevant to the stranglehold they use to have on the beer market, Budweiser is barely relevant.
If you talk to younger people, aged 21-27 years old, half of them haven't even tried Budweiser... ever. Even more of them decline to drink it on any sort of regular basis. If you look, in context, at beer companies relevancy among young people, Budweiser is completely irrelevant.
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Sounds like all the individual craft beers are way, way less than "barely relevant" by your definition...
No crap? Try everyone's definition. It would be ridiculous to say that any regional, smaller brewery with zero marketing is more relevant than an international super corporation.
... but their relevancy is going up as Budweiser goes down, they haven't lost 68% of their relevancy since their peak, and they aren't spending close to 10 million dollars making immature attack ads to go after their competition.
(Have fun ignoring the points I make and attacking me instead, again. I am most sure that is what you will do.)
No insecurity, hostility... sure. I think you are focusing on emotion to refute what I say because you can't do it with facts or figures.
Yeah, I do have hostility as a beer lover towards a company that buys craft breweries and slams craft brewers. I do have hostility towards a company that has told retailers that they will use their distribution system to make their life as an alcohol retailer harder if they continue to carry competing brands.
Insecurity doesn't look like a poster on the internet compiling the ad they played, the respones, and related facts and figures, it looks like a company spending nearly 10 million dollars to slam people for drinking better beer than what they offer.
No, they treat smaller beer companies and retailers badly. I am a fan of smaller beer companies and independent retailers.
I see that at this point in the post, you are still relying completely on ad hominem attacks rather than refuting anything that I have said... to borrow a quote from somebody... How can you be taken seriously after you make a post that is 100% ad hominem attack?
Oh look, more attacking me while still refusing to refute anything I said, it is funny that you would judge me for posting facts and figures as being insecure/hostile... would you call yourself immature since you spend more time trying to attack my character rather than actually providing facts, figures, or evidence to prove me wrong?
I would.
First, I have seen conflicting numbers, I chose the ones that give craft brewing the least advantage, but the Wall Street Journal has said that craft beer makes up as much as 14% of the market as of last November. So that would be double the market share of Budwieser, but let's keep the 7.8% number for arguments sake. The point is that you are looking at this without any context... just numbers.
Craft brewing does not have a millionth of the marketing budget that Budweiser has, but collectively, craft brewers are selling more beer despite spending, collectively, almost nothing in comparison.
Also, craft brewing is on a massive upswing, while Budweiser is on an even bigger downswing. Craft brewers are growing their market, they are winning over Budweiser despite being more expensive, having less marketing and brand recognition, and less market coverage.
Budweiser has lost 68% of it's business in the last 3 decades. If you look at them in context, relevant to the stranglehold they use to have on the beer market, Budweiser is barely relevant.
If you talk to younger people, aged 21-27 years old, half of them haven't even tried Budweiser... ever. Even more of them decline to drink it on any sort of regular basis. If you look, in context, at beer companies relevancy among young people, Budweiser is completely irrelevant.
No crap? Try everyone's definition. It would be ridiculous to say that any regional, smaller brewery with zero marketing is more relevant than an international super corporation.
... but their relevancy is going up as Budweiser goes down, they haven't lost 68% of their relevancy since their peak, and they aren't spending close to 10 million dollars making immature attack ads to go after their competition.
(Have fun ignoring the points I make and attacking me instead, again. I am most sure that is what you will do.)
Wow... lol, thank you for proving my point... You have some serious emotion put into this, relax guy, seriously breathe....
Did you take a deep breath? Ok, ready now?
The point of my post was to say how emotional you're getting over this and how you're posting things that don't make sense; the market share example, again, decreasing relevance is not the same as "not relevant" was an example which you say I'm not providing.. As for actual other facts, did you read my post? I said you have good points, so if I agree with some why do I need to argue? I just think you're getting ridiculous (overly passionate maybe) here and need to chill a bit.
I'll address all of your points here tomorrow (getting late here) and add how I feel on the subject, you go have a nice beer and relax.
Wow... lol, thank you for proving my point... You have some serious emotion put into this, relax guy, seriously breathe....
Lol! More ad hominem, seriously?
You also have a hard time reading emotions, as I was laughing at your post the entire time I was tearing apart your fallacies.
Tearing apart your fallacies and pointing out your inability to debate... while providing more evidence to further my cause, in no way means I am worked up.
But go ahead, like I predicted, ignore the points that are made and attempt to paint me as emotional... any educated reader will see right through your fallacies.
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Did you take a deep breath? Ok, ready now?
Seriously kid, look up the definition of ad hominem. To any educated reader you are just embarrassing yourself by posting nothing but logical fallacies.
You would be kicked off of any respectable debate team if all you did was try to paint your opponent as having some undesirable trait whilst ignoring the points he makes.
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The point of my post was to say how emotional you're getting over this and how you're posting things that don't make sense; the market share example, again, decreasing relevance is not the same as "not relevant" was an example which you say I'm not providing.. As for actual other facts, did you read my post? I said you have good points, so if I agree with some why do I need to argue? I just think you're getting ridiculous (overly passionate maybe) here and need to chill a bit.
Translation: "You have good points, and I haven't refuted a single word you have said... but I am going to argue with you because of some perceived emotion, even if your points are solid."
Seriously dude? Really?
One, you shouldn't try to read emotion through text, you have proven yourself to be horrid at it. If you think I was more worked up than entertained when I wrote my last post, you have no business guessing other peoples emotions.
Second. If you don't disagree with me on the issue, which is AB vs Craft Brewing, but you just don't like an attitude that YOU read and that I NEVER felt... keep it to yourself? My level of passion related to beer is not the subject matter of the thread.
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I'll address all of your points here tomorrow (getting late here) and add how I feel on the subject, you go have a nice beer and relax.
See, here you have to, once again, rely on your assumption that I was worked up or angry when I wrote the last post... despite a total lack of evidence that I was. Calling out somebody for using fallacies in an argument is not anger, it is good debate skill.
I will have a beer, because I like beer. I am already relaxed and even entertained thanks to you.
(I wonder if you will completely fabricate emotions for me to feel, regardless of my actual emotions, in your next post... or if you will drop the passive aggressive fallacies and unfounded conclusions and discuss the subject matter like an adult.)
If find nothing wrong with Budweiser beer. It is an ably brewed American Adjunct Lager. Perhaps the quintessential, if not canonical, example of the style. Not my favorite style, but that's down to my personal taste.
However, I completely agree with Xander's critique of A-B's business and marketing practices. Legal, but despicable.
O goody, another novel of a "response"... Oopss, there I go again! Let's go back and start from the first one.
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Originally Posted by Xander_Crews
No insecurity, hostility... sure. Ok, there we go... I think you are focusing on emotion to refute what I say because you can't do it with facts or figures. No, actually you still don't get it, I wasn't "refuting" anything really. What I did was point out how you supplied facts and figures and then came to an illogical conclusion (while supply suggesting as to where your illogical conclusion might be coming from, which you have amply confirmed), which, in your two novel length posts, you never once correctly address it.
Yeah, I do have hostility as a beer lover towards a company that buys craft breweries and slams craft brewers. I have a few thoughts on this that I'll write up next in response to your OP. I do have hostility towards a company that has told retailers that they will use their distribution system to make their life as an alcohol retailer harder if they continue to carry competing brands. Fair enough, but your issue should probably lie more with the system itself than AB's exploitation of it, but... as fate would have it they eventually were on the negative receiving end.
Insecurity doesn't look like a poster on the internet compiling the ad they played, the respones, and related facts and figures, it looks like a company spending nearly 10 million dollars to slam people for drinking better beer than what they offer. Maybe for AB, I'll explain shortly why I'm not in 100% agreement with you. As for your possible insecurity (or hostility), I questioned it based on several posts in this thread, you have now confirmed it's hostility.
No, they treat smaller beer companies and retailers badly. I am a fan of smaller beer companies and independent retailers. Agree on all accounts, but I still think they are not the core of the problem but the system they're exploiting.
I see that at this point in the post, you are still relying completely on ad hominem attacks rather than refuting anything that I have said... to borrow a quote from somebody... How can you be taken seriously after you make a post that is 100% ad hominem attack?
It actually isn't much of an attack, but am wondering again about that insecurity/hostility ratio though... Questioning your state of mind when you reach such an illogical conclusion, from your own data, was actually more constructive criticism but whatever, sorry you were so offended.
Oh look, more attacking me while still refusing to refute anything I said, it is funny that you would judge me for posting facts and figures as being insecure/hostile... would you call yourself immature since you spend more time trying to attack my character rather than actually providing facts, figures, or evidence to prove me wrong?
I would.
I already addressed this, I haven't started refuting anything, I merely pointed out your own logical fail and questioned it source, stop being so defensive.
First, I have seen conflicting numbers, I chose the ones that give craft brewing the least advantage, but the Wall Street Journal has said that craft beer makes up as much as 14% of the market as of last November. So that would be double the market share of Budwieser, but let's keep the 7.8% number for arguments sake. The point is that you are looking at this without any context... just numbers.
No, you still don't get the point. Craft beers could have a combined 50% market share, it wouldn't matter because Bud's % (all by itself) makes it still extremely relevant (despite how much you seem to want this not to be the case) and you came to the conclusion that it was "barely relevant"
Craft brewing does not have a millionth of the marketing budget that Budweiser has, but collectively, craft brewers are selling more beer despite spending, collectively, almost nothing in comparison.
Agreed, but this has nothing to do with what I said.
Also, craft brewing is on a massive upswing, while Budweiser is on an even bigger downswing. Craft brewers are growing their market, they are winning over Budweiser despite being more expensive, having less marketing and brand recognition, and less market coverage.
Still nothing to do with what I said...
Budweiser has lost 68% of it's business in the last 3 decades. If you look at them in context, relevant to the stranglehold they use to have on the beer market, Budweiser is barely relevant.
Logical fallacy. Bud being less relevant to its heyday does not make it barely relevant today. A quick/lazy google showed Bud second for US market share at 11.9%, first was its brother Bud Light with 28.3%. Spin it all you want but Bud is most certainly not "barely relevant" today.
If you talk to younger people, aged 21-27 years old, half of them haven't even tried Budweiser... ever. Even more of them decline to drink it on any sort of regular basis. If you look, in context, at beer companies relevancy among young people, Budweiser is completely irrelevant.
This really doesn't have much to do with what I said either as you're now trying to split hairs and cherry pick markets to try and support your claim, but either way, as a beer drinker, source please.
No crap? Try everyone's definition. It would be ridiculous to say that any regional, smaller brewery with zero marketing is more relevant than an international super corporation. Thanks, I agree!
... but their relevancy is going up as Budweiser goes down, they haven't lost 68% of their relevancy since their peak, and they aren't spending close to 10 million dollars making immature attack ads to go after their competition.
Same fallacy again...
(Have fun ignoring the points I make and attacking me instead, again. I am most sure that is what you will do.)
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Originally Posted by Xander_Crews
Lol! More ad hominem, seriously?
You also have a hard time reading emotions, as I was laughing at your post the entire time I was tearing apart your fallacies.
I am a funny fellow, but based on your long posts and hostility I'm not so sure...
Tearing apart your fallacies and pointing out your inability to debate... while providing more evidence to further my cause, in no way means I am worked up.
See my reply to your super sound "cause" (well now, it's a cause, further support for my claim...) above.
But go ahead, like I predicted, ignore the points that are made and attempt to paint me as emotional... any educated reader will see right through your fallacies.
My observations seem to still be going strong... I merely question one of your conclusions, and you're still off on it.
Seriously kid, look up the definition of ad hominem. To any educated reader you are just embarrassing yourself by posting nothing but logical fallacies.
Irony is funny...
You would be kicked off of any respectable debate team if all you did was try to paint your opponent as having some undesirable trait whilst ignoring the points he makes.
More irony... Lots of weird personal attacks here as well... Maybe they should have taught you in your debate class the difference between a debate and someone just commenting on your less than logical conclusion.. Very telling stuff here though...
Translation: "You have good points, and I haven't refuted a single word you have said... but I am going to argue with you because of some perceived admitted to be correctly perceived emotion, even if your points are solid."
Seriously dude? Really?
You actually only briefly addressed my OP, and it was with a fallacy so maybe calm down on all of the back patting and funny attacks. Or don't, keep up your self congratulations in the previous non-existent debate and attempts to be condescending in basic manners (simple concepts that you're "teaching" while actually misusing them, pretend presumptions of age, etc.)
One, you shouldn't try to read emotion through text, you have proven yourself to be horrid at it. If you think I was more worked up than entertained when I wrote my last post, you have no business guessing other peoples emotions.
Ah, here we go again
Second. If you don't disagree with me on the issue, which is AB vs Craft Brewing, but you just don't like an attitude that YOU read and that I NEVER felt... keep it to yourself? My level of passion related to beer is not the subject matter of the thread.
Def never questioned your level of passion, questioned (and still do) how the second highest beer by market share is "barely relevant" and you can't answer it.
See, here you have to, once again, rely on your assumption that I was worked up or angry when I wrote the last post... despite a total lack of evidence that I was. Calling out somebody for using fallacies in an argument is not anger, it is good debate skill.
See above...
I will have a beer, because I like beer. I am already relaxed and even entertained thanks to you.
(I wonder if you will completely fabricate emotions for me to feel, regardless of my actual emotions, in your next post... or if you will drop the passive aggressive fallacies and unfounded conclusions and discuss the subject matter like an adult.)
Brewed the hard way it would seem... (even though plenty of craft brewers make lagers too, and do a better job.)
During the third quarter of the Super Bowl, Budweiser aired an ad taking aim at craft brewing, turning their nose up at it, and taking cheap shots at craft drinkers. They actually made fun of people for drinking beer, that by beer standards, is better.
I think what they did much more than this was target their core audience, who are clearly not craft beer drinkers, and I bet for this target audience it worked pretty well... Also, poking fun at craft drinkers (I'm one too btw) is ok (and some today need to be made fun of a bit), they aren't trying to win you or other craft drinkers over with this add.
At this point, over 6 breweries just in Colorado have vowed to brew a pumpkin-peach ale to commemorate Budweiser's blunder.
Their hypocritical "you are with us or against us" stance is one of the more laughable aspects of the commercial, as AB In-Bev has spent millions acquiring many craft brewers.
I don't quite view it as "Bud's blunder" though. AB Inbev is obviously massive with around 41 product lines/brands, they obviously aren't going to market them all the same as they aren't for the same people. Would you market Bud the same way as the craft beers they acquired/"created"? Or the founded in 1152 abbey beer Leffe? I highly doubt they "forgot" about beers they made, they're doing it intentionally. Have you ever seen ties to Bud on their "craft beers?" Shock Top says something like Brewed By The Shock Top Brewery, St. Louis MO. The commercial fits their business strategy, regardless of it being viewed by some as hypocritical they don't care because they like consumers keeping them separate so the can better hold onto the market share (still almost 50% in the US) that you point out has been decreasing.
Even better yet, was Miller-Coors's response, which took the opposite position:
As you can see, Miller-Coors took the high road, and essentially said, "We are all in this together." While I am not a huge fan of their brand, I really appreciate this stance on the issue. Especially when Budweiser is using their distribution system to strong-arm retailers out of carrying craft brands.
The backlash to Bud's ad doesn't stop there. In fact, many parodies have popped up. *The last one might be a little NSFW, but only a little.*
The message is clear. Budweiser is scared. Their market share keeps dropping. Young people are abandoning their brand. They have a solution though... mocking the new generation of beer drinkers.
The message is clear, they are a global giant who is marketing specific beers to specific markets and this is how they are deciding to market Bud. Do you have percentages for where Bud's losses are going? I imagine a whole lot of it has been cannibalized by other AB Inbev products, import macros (again, including their own), and then a little by craft beers.
If Bud wants to be proud....then can be....but Bud is tone deaf for this one. They are buying micro breweries up...in fact the week before this ad aired, they bought a micro known for a pumpkin-peach ale. And they turn around and make fun of it?
They are used to being 'large and in charge' and can't handle that they are losing market shares and people have stopped thinking that the only beer is weak macro pilsner. They acted like a bully lashing out...and are being called on the carpet for it. Poor them.
I disagree. They are buying up micros to compete in that market, Bud really isn't for that market and this seems to continue their strategy of keeping them (secretly even) separate. Yeah, they made fun of it because a lot of Bud drinkers would and that's who the commercial is for, not people who buy craft beer as they usually don't buy Bud.
While Bud sales have been dropping, Bud Light sales have been increasing, so in many ways they're just cannibalizing their own brands. Micros are definitely growing (a great thing) but Bud Light is the real threat to Bud.
I do think that ad is completely tone deaf and hypocritical. They're telling people to not care about what's in their beer, right after bragging about being "beechwood aged". So which is it?
Agree with both points, and the second I believe is actually amusing hypocritical unlike the "buying craft beers while making fun of them" hypocrisy which I understand.
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Let's go back and start from the first one.
I think you are focusing on emotion to refute what I say because you can't do it with facts or figures. No, actually you still don't get it, I wasn't "refuting" anything really. What I did was point out how you supplied facts and figures and then came to an illogical conclusion (while supply suggesting as to where your illogical conclusion might be coming from, which you have amply confirmed), which, in your two novel length posts, you never once correctly address it.
