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For 10 miserable years I suffered with clinical depression and all the GP's and Endos tests kept telling them and me, the numbers are fine...you are normal. Then proceeded to try new anti depressant drugs. Less than a week after finally get on thyroid desiccated support, that long depression lifted. I believe this goes on big time in the thyroid world TODAY.
Last edited by jaminhealth; 10-20-2017 at 06:11 PM..
LOL! The article you cite bases treatment on ... numbers!
The question the author has is about what the numbers should be.
Not everyone with "depression, anxiety, unexplained weight gain, severe fatigue, hair loss, brain fog, constipation and sleep issues" has hypothyroidism, and anyone with all those symptoms who is hypothyroid is probably going to have abnormal numbers no matter what the reference range is.
It does not appear that he advocates desiccated thyroid, though.
The problem with changing the reference ranges is that it may mean diagnosing people as hypothyroid who are not hypothyroid, thus delaying the proper diagnosis for their symptoms. "Misdiagnosis" can work both ways.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 10-20-2017 at 07:42 PM..
Yes, I guess it's better to give patients A/D drugs for many years vs giving thyroid some support, more profits in those forever changing drug scripts...I was there long enough!!!!! I'm thinking of my issue which was depression.
And then there are 60 some other issues due to HypoT.
Thinking back to the years from 1991 - 2002 when I was on that road to get what I believed was a sluggish thyroid supported, and I kept many old labs from those years, the TSH was never 5, or 4 or even 3 but almost always in the 2's where this Dr. Kellman says support should be started at the 2.5 level. Today's "normal" range is around 1-5 on TSH. The higher the TSH the more one is Hypo. These days I come in under 1.
Then there is all the work from the Stop The Thyroid Madness group that say TSH needs to be 1 or lower, and T3 and T4 at the upper ends of the ranges for a person to be optimal.
Ranges vary and doctors are way out there with what they believe and treat.
Again and I've mentioned it, the D.O. who got me on support never did a lab and started with a theraputic dose and we went from there on HOW I FELT...I just know the depression lifted in short time.
Numbers have their uses. They are objective, comparable, specific, and repeatable. Feelings are subjective to each person you might ask, precision isn't possible, there's no way to know how much change there is from one "feeling" to another. They slide all the time. If I want a professional to treat an ailment I want them to be able to demonstrate cause and effect of the treatments. Change in body temperature, weight, some body measurement, baseline blood values (for example) can show more precisely what is changing and what is not. Being able to measure change is going to be important when weighing one choice over another. Statistics are used all the time to demonstrate how good or bad something is...and they are also used to make claims about alternative as well as main stream meds. And, statistics use (wait for it) numbers.
I am not saying "feelings" should be ignored. They are part of the big picture. I just think they are hard to pin down and use clinically.
Last edited by Parnassia; 10-20-2017 at 11:23 PM..
Yes, I guess it's better to give patients A/D drugs for many years vs giving thyroid some support, more profits in those forever changing drug scripts...I was there long enough!!!!! I'm thinking of my issue which was depression.
And then there are 60 some other issues due to HypoT.
Thinking back to the years from 1991 - 2002 when I was on that road to get what I believed was a sluggish thyroid supported, and I kept many old labs from those years, the TSH was never 5, or 4 or even 3 but almost always in the 2's where this Dr. Kellman says support should be started at the 2.5 level. Today's "normal" range is around 1-5 on TSH. The higher the TSH the more one is Hypo. These days I come in under 1.
Then there is all the work from the Stop The Thyroid Madness group that say TSH needs to be 1 or lower, and T3 and T4 at the upper ends of the ranges for a person to be optimal.
Ranges vary and doctors are way out there with what they believe and treat.
Again and I've mentioned it, the D.O. who got me on support never did a lab and started with a theraputic dose and we went from there on HOW I FELT...I just know the depression lifted in short time.
You don't pay for what you are taking for your thyroid?
Medication does not "support" the thyroid. If you take thyroid hormone you switch the thyroid off from its own production and replace it. It does not even matter if your thyroid was underactive or not. Taking thyroid hormone will switch off a normal thyroid.
Kellman is setting the TSH level to start treatment so low that he will have virtually everyone on hormone replacement. That is good for his business, I guess, since it means more people to treat.
You can't have it both ways, saying numbers don't matter and just treat based on "HOW I FELT" then quoting numbers from "Stop The Thyroid Madness".
Telling someone she is hypothyroid without doing any testing at all is Bad Medicine. You shopped around until you found someone who would give you thyroid hormone whether you needed it or not. Frankly, having the depression lift in a matter of days is suspicious for something going on besides the effect of treatment for hypothyroidism, which usually takes longer to kick in.
People with symptomatic hypothyroidism usually have TSH levels that are well above the established ranges, not values of 2 or 3.
By the way, you cannot reliably compare TSH levels from years ago to measurements today. The tests have changed too much.
You don't pay for what you are taking for your thyroid?
Medication does not "support" the thyroid. If you take thyroid hormone you switch the thyroid off from its own production and replace it. It does not even matter if your thyroid was underactive or not. Taking thyroid hormone will switch off a normal thyroid.
Kellman is setting the TSH level to start treatment so low that he will have virtually everyone on hormone replacement. That is good for his business, I guess, since it means more people to treat.
You can't have it both ways, saying numbers don't matter and just treat based on "HOW I FELT" then quoting numbers from "Stop The Thyroid Madness".
Telling someone she is hypothyroid without doing any testing at all is Bad Medicine. You shopped around until you found someone who would give you thyroid hormone whether you needed it or not. Frankly, having the depression lift in a matter of days is suspicious for something going on besides the effect of treatment for hypothyroidism, which usually takes longer to kick in.
People with symptomatic hypothyroidism usually have TSH levels that are well above the established ranges, not values of 2 or 3.
By the way, you cannot reliably compare TSH levels from years ago to measurements today. The tests have changed too much.
When I was finally diagnosed my TSH was 38. The symptoms were so insidious that I didn't recognize them as thyroid related (and there were many of them).
It took almost a year of taking meds to feel "normal" again.
My new Endo is trying to balance numbers with the symptoms and how I am feeling.
I wonder if you are taking thyroid supportive meds and don't need them, does that render the thyroid inactive permenently?
You don't pay for what you are taking for your thyroid?
Medication does not "support" the thyroid. If you take thyroid hormone you switch the thyroid off from its own production and replace it. It does not even matter if your thyroid was underactive or not. Taking thyroid hormone will switch off a normal thyroid.
Kellman is setting the TSH level to start treatment so low that he will have virtually everyone on hormone replacement. That is good for his business, I guess, since it means more people to treat.
You can't have it both ways, saying numbers don't matter and just treat based on "HOW I FELT" then quoting numbers from "Stop The Thyroid Madness".
Telling someone she is hypothyroid without doing any testing at all is Bad Medicine. You shopped around until you found someone who would give you thyroid hormone whether you needed it or not. Frankly, having the depression lift in a matter of days is suspicious for something going on besides the effect of treatment for hypothyroidism, which usually takes longer to kick in.
People with symptomatic hypothyroidism usually have TSH levels that are well above the established ranges, not values of 2 or 3.
By the way, you cannot reliably compare TSH levels from years ago to measurements today. The tests have changed too much.
Whatever!!! Believe what you choose...as you do walk in others shoes, right?
And yes 10 yrs of depression lifted in days and COULD BE desiccated is far superior to your synthroid stuff. There has been a long history of issues when Syn came on the market.
Reading the patient comments on the above link here is what one person said:
((Listen to your body and observe how you feel. The FDA is corrupt and gets HUGE benefits from Monsanto and Big Pharma. They are in their pocket and are bullies. They are not looking out for us and I do not trust them. Your body is the ONLY and best judge. If you feel good and even BETTER right now, than ever on the synthetic garbage, take what makes you feel well. These goons make me so mad.))
Last edited by jaminhealth; 10-21-2017 at 10:26 AM..
When I was finally diagnosed my TSH was 38. The symptoms were so insidious that I didn't recognize them as thyroid related (and there were many of them).
It took almost a year of taking meds to feel "normal" again.
My new Endo is trying to balance numbers with the symptoms and how I am feeling.
I wonder if you are taking thyroid supportive meds and don't need them, does that render the thyroid inactive permenently?
No, if you stop the medication the thyroid eventually recovers.
Few doctors sell the medications they prescribe. It's interesting how often those who go on the internet and insist they know better than the experts about a condition sell supplements. That goes for the "integrative" physicians who sell supplements out of their offices, too. I often wonder whether those doctors really believe what they sell does anything useful - since few of them do - or just sell them because they know there are people who want to buy them and feel they might as well profit from them. I suspect it is the latter.
I don't care to get into the discussion of whether someone should or should not support their thyroid, nutritionally, to obtain optimal function.
What I am concerned about is why you are obsessively and contentiously on the alternative health forum since it's quite obvious, you have a self-righteous disdain for everything discussed here.
A healthy amount of debate is always welcome on any forum, but you seem to be bound and determined to argue and dispute constantly - and in a very insulting, antagonistic way! Why not hang out on the mainstream health threads? I just don't see where your contribution is constructive or 'healthy' for those of us trying to share ideas that are compatible with our belief systems.
And BTW, your quotes around the word integrative just shows how little you know about the alternative health community and this segment of progressive MDs who have chosen to expand their knowledge and open their minds to principles and practices that draw from research and traditions used all over the world.
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