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Old 01-04-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
19,607 posts, read 20,067,215 times
Reputation: 28667

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D217
Your loss!
Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
What loss? I have a healthy mouth full of teeth that are all my own and I'm a great grand mother.
Well that is great news, but I didn't say you were losing out on oil pulling, lol, but the many overall health benefits of oils themselves.

Personally, I find oils work best for the skin & hair. I've been using the (facial) oil cleansing method for almost 2yrs now- I don't break out anymore & saw positive results almost instantly.


As I stated previously, I did try oil pulling for a little over a week (both w/ coconut and sesame oil), but just felt I was wasting quality oil! Wasn't seeing "results" quick enough ( I am impatient! ) so I just let it go.

*I don't take away from those who claim they have seen results however. Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:58 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 13,183,908 times
Reputation: 14170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post



...But while you are laughing at them, people are feeling better because they are rejuvinating and detoxiifying their colons of old decomposing partly-digested meaty bits which have been stuck in the folds of the colon for years. So tell me, is this something which is untrue too?

When doctors remove gall bladders, or thyroids, or other parts of our body - which they do at the drop of a hat - dont you think that our body needs these organs to function correctly?

Maybe we need a re-think of the way medical support works in our current civilisation and doctors should be rewarded for health and penalised for disease in their patients. Oh No... that would mean that doctors and nurses were not gods anymore. It would mean that payment was result-based, just like other jobs are too.
So much nonsense in this post, but I wanted to highlight these beauties....

If you ever had a colonoscopy or had the opportunities as I have had to look through many endoscopes you would know that, in fact, it is absolutely UNTRUE that "old decomposing partly digested meaty bits" are stuck "in the folds of the colon for years" That is a fairy tale which has no basis in fact and is very easy to disprove and is actively proven false thousands of times a day in this country. Talk to a gastroenterologist...

As for removing gall bladders, thyroids, appendixes etc....the whole point in removing them is that they AREN'T FUNCTIONING CORRECTLY AND ARE DOING MORE HARM THAN GOOD. Is that really so hard to understand?? And no there is no herbal supplement, detoxification scheme, fasting mumbo jumbo or homeopathic juju that will will correct these situations short of surgery.

Lastly, I know many, many nurses and doctors personally. Have been a health care provider for over 20 years, yet to meet one of these fine folks that think they are a "god".

You want pay for performance....fine.

You say every other job has that? Tell it to judges, lawyers, politicians, priests, rabbis, firefighters, police officers....or just about every professional on earth...

Do judges get paid only when they get it right? Ever hear of a judge being punished for sending an innocent man to jail?

My car was stolen once...should a police officer have been "penalized" for not preventing it?

A house down the street from me burned down, the firefighters couldn't save it. Fire the lot of them.

Last I checked my financial advisor still got paid even as the stock market went belly up over the past few years.....
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 14,906,415 times
Reputation: 5449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Have you ever visited a real Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor? No, probably not. Well, my father-in-law is one and works in one of the best clinics in Beijing. Do you honestly think that people of whatever nationality would continue to visit and support methods of treatment which were not effective? No, I dont either.
Have you ever heard of the placebo effect? Modern younger Chinese people, the better educated they are, the less likely they are to throw their money away on expensive tiger penises, Rhino horn, ground herbs etc when truly and seriously ill. They realize these "cures" are worthless. The older and less educated the Chinese person, the more apt they are to waste the little money they have on traditional medicine.

Quote:
...And you are parroting the orthodox medicine and sceptics websites. So what? We each have our beliefs and I just happen to believe that my body is better supported when it is ill. Can you claim that orthodox medicine does that?
Orthodox medicine saved my life more than once. Tell me, what herb takes the place of human thyroid hormone? What herb or animal body part in the Chinese traditional medicine chest controls or cures Lupus or Scleroderma? What controls/cures the pain of angina? Endometriosis? Fibroid tumors? Breast cancer?

Quote:
I choose to try to boost my immune system to help my body overcome any conditions it may have - rather than suppressing both immune system AND wayward body cells which is often the case in the mainstream system.
You cannot boost your immune system beyond your genetic ability. And only a blood test will tell you if your immune system is up to par or suppressed for some reason. Asperin for headache for example, doesn't suppress the immune system, nor does Tums for heartburn.

Quote:
Plenty of people have been cured of cancer through - for example - fasting.
What people? Where were all the double blind studies done? What American Journal was this information written up in? Who are the people and where can their medical records be located?

Quote:
The Bristol Cancer Clinic in the UK has helped many many people live longer with a better quality of life than if they had continued to take chemotherapy drugs. It is based on sensible diet for the condition and support for the body. There are plenty of clinics which do this kind of thing and have great results too.
Not according their website. Alt meds can be used in conjunction with modern treatments but anyone looking for an alt med cure will soon realize the alt med cures always fall by the wayside as 100% failures. Totally ineffective. The totally worthless Clark magic zapper and peach pit (laetrile) cancer cures for example. Cancer cannot be cured by diet and herbs and animal body parts such as Rhino horn and dried bear's organs. You would know this if you understood human physiology.

Quote:
Oh, another person shouting "proof". Your beloved science is not at a stage yet to be able to effectively measure the body energy in a way which can help detect and diagnose illness. When these techniques are developed, then yes alternatives to orthodox medication will be available along with the proof that you require. Until then, you will just have to go with the old adage "The proof of the pudding is in the eating". This means if it works, dont knock it.
Ah yes, but 99.9% of alt meds do NOT work. That's why modern medicine is what it is and got where it did. Most of the meds out there do indeed work. Sure some are failures and don't live up to what the developer claimed, but they're removed from the market unlike tiger penises and animal horns.

Quote:
Unless of course you have another agenda... do you?

Possibly you do not remember the answers because you are not open to believing them.
I have no agenda - what about you? I received no answers from you or anyone else. All you offer are useless testimonials written by professional writers who never used the products and couldn't care less if they worked or not. They write them for an income.


Quote:
As I said above, there used to be clinics which offered fasting as part of serious disease treatment. Many of these have now gone, not because they were ineffective, as these things tend to become popular simply because one person who has been helped recommends it to others. However, these days the medical, pharmacutical and insurance industries are very powerful and employ bully-boy tactics to get rid of organisations which do not agree with their profit agendas.
And yet there was not one authenticated case that we could fine after thoroughly searching the net. That is a 100% baseless claim. And why do you never mention these alt med clinics are also expensive, just like real medical clinics? Why do you not tell us about the FREE ones out there. Please provide a list of alt med clinics and alt med practitioners that are FREE. You keep harping on the money everyone in the med fields are making as if alt meds were free.

Quote:
There are plenty of examples where medication is given and has had side effects because it does not agree with the patients body processes. Herbs prescribed by a qualified herbalist, should be able to support the body and help the healing process without giving side effects or being toxic. Homeopathic treatments also do not have side effects as far as I know. Just 2 examples, but of course, there are others too.
Oh they can and do indeed have side effects. The active ingredients can be toxic. Not all plants are non-toxic. Herbs don't "support" the body. A good balanced healthy diet does that. Do you know what a good balanced healthy diet is? If so, no EXPENSIVE herbs are needed. Eat the proper foods and get exercise.... that's what supports your body and keeps you healthy.

Quote:
It is interesting that you feel the need to protect people who are probably as intelligent and educated as you are.
People as educated as I am do not fall for EXPENSIVE quack treatments and cures (bear gall bladders, herbal cures, magic zappers, etc). It's those with either no knowledge or education in human physiology, and those who are poorly educated altogether who fall for such archaic mostly worthless cures and voodoo snake oil nonsense. And those who are not only uneducated, but who cannot afford health Ins or are too cheap to pay for it who turn to what they feel is a cheaper treatments - enter alt meds. When they finally realize they paid a bundle for worthless treatments and are still sick, or even sicker, they finally end up in the ER and society ends up paying their medical bills.

Quote:
What makes you think they need 'protecting' by you from these snake-oil concoctions and rip-off artists? Do you believe they are less intelligent and less aware than you are? Do you think you are somehow more intelligent than they are perhaps? Not a doctor were you, by any chance?
Are you a Dr? Do you feel you're educated andi ntelligent enough to recommend "cures" and "treatments" you read about online? To discourage sick people from going to a real Dr and getting effective treatments? I was in the medical field almost my entire working life, both human and animal. So yes, I am knowledgeable and educated. What do you do for a living?

Quote:
I think people are generally quite well aware of the dangers of things, but they are looking to alternative medicine because deep-down, they know that orthodox medicine often poisons their body and makes it dependent on medications for the rest of their life. It does NOT work in a supportive way to restore and maintain health.
Only a good diet with healthy nourishing foods and exercise, plus good genes will do that despite what you and your ilk spew on the net. Some people have to be on medication all their lives if they want to live. That statement alone from you proves your ignorance of human physiology. You never even heard of type #1 diabetes did you?

Quote:
Unfortunately, people want a quick-fix and that is the market the orthodox medicines are addressing at the moment. The aim should be try to get our bodies working correctly and to encourage people to be responsible for their own health, NOT to take over responsibility for our bodies and to manage our health for us.
Here I agree. Most people are not willing to change their diet, get more exercise and give up alcohol and tobacco. Buying EXPENSIVE herbs and supplements and magic zappers will not make any difference unless they are willing to change their lifestyle and especially their diets.


Quote:
...But while you are laughing at them, people are feeling better because they are rejuvinating and detoxiifying their colons of old decomposing partly-digested meaty bits which have been stuck in the folds of the colon for years. So tell me, is this something which is untrue too?
Yes, it is untrue. If they had rotting decomposing meat and other matter in their colons they would quickly die from infection. Food passes along and is digested as it goes. Bacteria work on it and are harmless. Stool collects in the colon and is passed from the body. By the time it makes it to the colon, unless the person has diarrhea, it's digested. If they have diarrhea, it's passed out quickly. There are no bits of undigested meat. There is nowhere it can get stuck because of peristalsis. The lining of the gut is smooth and slippery and waste passes without a problem. Constipation is another issue. How is it you do not know this? What is your medical background?


Quote:
When doctors remove gall bladders, or thyroids, or other parts of our body - which they do at the drop of a hat - dont you think that our body needs these organs to function correctly?
At the drop of a hat? That alone shows ignorance of what surgeons do. If these organs are diseased and not working, if they're causing a problem to the person, yes, they have to be removed. What is wrong with that? I'd rather have my thyroid removed than die of thyroid cancer.

Quote:
Maybe we need a re-think of the way medical support works in our current civilisation and doctors should be rewarded for health and penalised for disease in their patients. Oh No... that would mean that doctors and nurses were not gods anymore. It would mean that payment was result-based, just like other jobs are too.
Please provide a list for us of all the alt meds who, unlike Drs and nurses, work for FREE and where we can all get FREE herbs and whatever else you believe in. Remember, you keep harping on MONEY so we need to know where you get everything for FREE.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: UK
6,901 posts, read 6,807,149 times
Reputation: 6510
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz
the whole point in removing them is that they AREN'T FUNCTIONING CORRECTLY AND ARE DOING MORE HARM THAN GOOD. Is that really so hard to understand??
Really? Do you know what "harm" is done to the body after a gallbladder is removed? Where is the bile stored and concentrated after it has been removed? What was the point of the body having a gallbladder in the first place if it can do without it? Maybe it is a vestigial organ like the appendix? As far as I know, people who have had their gallbladder removed have to watch their diets and not eat too much or over-oily foods. There are ways of harming the patient which are passive. You dont have to actively poison someone to 'harm' their quality-of-life for example.

Quote:
And no there is no herbal supplement, detoxification scheme, fasting mumbo jumbo or homeopathic juju that will will correct these situations short of surgery.
Well, there you are. Now we know, dont we? Unfortunately in this one case(myself), you are not correct, since I have first-hand experience. If it works for me, it can work for others too. Besides, you are trying to make the argument specific to certain conditions and I did not reference specific conditions - did I?

Whatever you believe cannot possibly work, this juju, mumbojumbo stuff as you call it DID work. So, you are just plain WRONG, in spite of you being a doctor. See, you expect people to take your word as gospel, and it isn't gospel.

I can understand having a diseased organ removed if there is nothing which can be done for it or if it is going to poison other parts of the body, but it does seem that there is more of a medical culture of "if it offends you, then cut it out" rather than a culture of "try to keep it as long as you can". Which do you think is better for people's long-term health?

Quote:
Lastly, I know many, many nurses and doctors personally. Have been a health care provider for over 20 years, yet to meet one of these fine folks that think they are a "god".
The trouble is that if you are also in the medical establishment, you probably would not recognise it. You just need a reality-check, thats all. Well actually I dont know any "gods" either, however I do know some who think they should be up there on Mount Olympus with the gods by the way they expect their opinion to be taken without question. Like you are doing on this forum for example. When will you guys realise that we dont know all there is to know about health and there are other ways of healing which work - other than the ones you practice. I am not saying that the ones you practice have no uses - of course they do. I have been cured of cancer by orthodx medicine, so I am grateful for your training and experience. 7 years+ of training must have taught you a lot about the human anatomy and physiology, however, it has left you with an erroneous idea that other time-honoured healing methods are not as good as your own.

The point I was making in my last paragraph in the above post was that the medical establishment might like to re-evaluate the oath they took when they pledged to dedicate themselves to the persuit of health for their patients. Currently, it seems like they fire-fight rather than be proactive, to destroy rather than build-up and this appears to me to be the wrong way around.

One of the clauses in the Hippocratic Oath mentions recognizing the limits of knowledge and to persue lifelong learning so as to better care for the sick and to prevent illness. Tell me... how do you presently prevent illness? That suggests being proactive and what I was suggesting is a way to move towards that goal.

Hippocratic Oath
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,351 posts, read 34,476,580 times
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Had my gallbladder removed over 20 years ago...... never have to watch my diet now.


I am not anti-alternative medicine, as mentioned before my doc's are either Chinese or Japanese, and they are all pro-alternative...... for things that are proven to work.

Contrary to many statements here, there is a lot of scientific data on herbals and other alternatives, including double blind studies.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:58 PM
 
Location: UK
6,901 posts, read 6,807,149 times
Reputation: 6510
Quote:
Have you ever heard of the placebo effect? Modern younger Chinese people, the better educated they are, the less likely they are to throw their money away on expensive tiger penises, Rhino horn, ground herbs etc when truly and seriously ill. They realize these "cures" are worthless. The older and less educated the Chinese person, the more apt they are to waste the little money they have on traditional medicine.
And you know this...how? Coming from China, I would say that you are totally wrong in this assumption and since I know a TCM doctor, I am probably speaking with more authority on this subject than you are. I can only assume that you are bias against this form of treatment.

Quote:
Orthodox medicine saved my life more than once. Tell me, what herb takes the place of human thyroid hormone? What herb or animal body part in the Chinese traditional medicine chest controls or cures Lupus or Scleroderma? What controls/cures the pain of angina? Endometriosis? Fibroid tumors? Breast cancer?
and it has saved my life too. There are probably instances where alternative medicine has saved lives, but it tends to be more preventative in nature so is less suitable for critical life-threatening issues. The point is that orthodox medicine is often knee-jerk reactions to urgent conditions brought about because, for a lot of people, they dont want to see a doc until it is fairly serious. Others of course, prefer to see their doc for the smallest scratch.

Quote:
You cannot boost your immune system beyond your genetic ability. And only a blood test will tell you if your immune system is up to par or suppressed for some reason. Asperin for headache for example, doesn't suppress the immune system, nor does Tums for heartburn.
This is rather like saying "a body can only hold as much blood as will fill the blood vessels." In your example, you CAN remove the need for medication by actively addressing the causes of heartburn or headache and THAT is what we should be aiming towards, NOT treating the effects/symptoms of some illness or condition. Can't you see that after all your years in the medical world?

Quote:
What people? Where were all the double blind studies done? What American Journal was this information written up in? Who are the people and where can their medical records be located?
There you go wanting proof again. Just because it is not "written up" and peer reviewed does not mean that it did not happen and people were not cured. Try to see past this needing proof of everything, it is really a fear-based approach to medicine. Fear that you will not make the correct decision because there is not enough 'proof'.

The Bristol Cancer Clinic in the UK .....
Quote:
Not according their website. Alt meds can be used in conjunction with modern treatments but anyone looking for an alt med cure will soon realize the alt med cures always fall by the wayside as 100% failures. Totally ineffective. The totally worthless Clark magic zapper and peach pit (laetrile) cancer cures for example. Cancer cannot be cured by diet and herbs and animal body parts such as Rhino horn and dried bear's organs. You would know this if you understood human physiology.
One thing I believe they stress is that you do not have to cease conventional drugs, and why should you if they are helping the condition. However, their regimen does include sensible diet guidlines for people with serious diseases. Often people go there as a last resort after they have tried the conventional medicine route.

Again, I feel you are making wild assumptions and untrue statements about these forms of healing. I am convinced that there is a whole area of medicine and science which has not been investigated because of people such as yourself who will not accept that there are equally effective treatments to disease which do not involve orthodox medicine. One day, the world will come to see that all medicine should be based on energy as we are energy beings.

Quote:
Ah yes, but 99.9% of alt meds do NOT work. That's why modern medicine is what it is and got where it did. Most of the meds out there do indeed work. Sure some are failures and don't live up to what the developer claimed, but they're removed from the market unlike tiger penises and animal horns.
Who knows best, you or hundreds of years of Traditional Chinese medicine experience? (Please dont answer that, you may embarrass yourself) I do agree that animal parts are not good for the continued well-being of the animals, and I think that maybe an alternative could possibly be found or used. I dont like the way animals are sometimes treated in other cultures either, but there are ways to move towards a better situation in these cases.

Quote:
I have no agenda - what about you? I received no answers from you or anyone else. All you offer are useless testimonials written by professional writers who never used the products and couldn't care less if they worked or not. They write them for an income.
The more you rant on in an irrational way, the more I think you may have. Oh well, if you say not, then I suppose you dont. What do others think on City Data? I have a feeling that your rants are doing your argument more harm than good.

Answers, what answers? I am trying to address each of your points, however irrational they might be.

These days we cannot always tell if medical reports have been 'bought' and the ones produced by drugs companies are just as likely to be 'bought' since they can afford to pay more for them. Many alternative health care professionals survive because of their effective results and the personal word-of-mouth recommendations they get. Why would people go to see a homeopath for example if they did not consider this form of treatment was effective?

Quote:
And yet there was not one authenticated case that we could fine after thoroughly searching the net. That is a 100% baseless claim. And why do you never mention these alt med clinics are also expensive, just like real medical clinics? Why do you not tell us about the FREE ones out there. Please provide a list of alt med clinics and alt med practitioners that are FREE. You keep harping on the money everyone in the med fields are making as if alt meds were free.
Need "authenticated" proof again? I wonder why?

Quote:
Oh they can and do indeed have side effects. The active ingredients can be toxic. Not all plants are non-toxic. Herbs don't "support" the body. A good balanced healthy diet does that. Do you know what a good balanced healthy diet is? If so, no EXPENSIVE herbs are needed. Eat the proper foods and get exercise.... that's what supports your body and keeps you healthy.
That is why I said "proper qualified herbalist" because I realise that herbs can be toxic if taken in incorrect quantities or for extended periods. I am advocating a good diet and exercise too, but we are talking about alternative health modalities and oil pulling in particular.

Quote:
People as educated as I am do not fall for EXPENSIVE quack treatments and cures (bear gall bladders, herbal cures, magic zappers, etc). It's those with either no knowledge or education in human physiology, and those who are poorly educated altogether who fall for such archaic mostly worthless cures and voodoo snake oil nonsense. And those who are not only uneducated, but who cannot afford health Ins or are too cheap to pay for it who turn to what they feel is a cheaper treatments - enter alt meds. When they finally realize they paid a bundle for worthless treatments and are still sick, or even sicker, they finally end up in the ER and society ends up paying their medical bills.
There you go assuming your education will save you from being conned in life. This is just not so unfortunately. People are conned whatever their level of education, so no good feeling superior because of your education. What you say does rather show your attitude to "the poor uneducated populous" though.

Quote:
Are you a Dr? Do you feel you're educated andi ntelligent enough to recommend "cures" and "treatments" you read about online? To discourage sick people from going to a real Dr and getting effective treatments? I was in the medical field almost my entire working life, both human and animal. So yes, I am knowledgeable and educated. What do you do for a living?
I do not recommend anything which I do not have personal experience of and received benefit from. Can you say the same?

I have an opinion as you do, but I try to remain open to possible alternatives and try to recognise that I do not know everything about a subject and I recognise that all bodies are different and respond to different healing modalities. I am so pleased to find out that you were in the medical field your entire life because it shows in your attitude here. You may know about orthodox health matters, but you do not have the same general life experiences that I have had - which I might add - are just as valid as yours.

Only a healthy colon will work as you describe, if the body has sluggish systems and imbalanced flora in the gut, then illness and disease will result. What you are describing is how it should work, but not many people have this kind of bodily health, particularly as they get older when the effects of poor diet and sedentry lifestyle has taken its toll.

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At the drop of a hat? That alone shows ignorance of what surgeons do. If these organs are diseased and not working, if they're causing a problem to the person, yes, they have to be removed. What is wrong with that? I'd rather have my thyroid removed than die of thyroid cancer.
At the drop of a hat means that they are quick to decide that this is the best course of action when possibly other treatments which may take longer are likely to be effective too. If we are talking about choices here, then I would prefer to keep my organ and put a little more effort into repairing what I had (almost) destroyed through my ignorance and bodily misuse. I have already said that if there is no alternative then of course I would have my organ removed, but often there are alternatives. It is up to the patient to decide which course of action they choose and their responsibility to find out which is best - NOT for the doctor to tell them which is easiest.

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Please provide a list for us of all the alt meds who, unlike Drs and nurses, work for FREE and where we can all get FREE herbs and whatever else you believe in. Remember, you keep harping on MONEY so we need to know where you get everything for FREE.
Who said that doctors or anyone else have to work for free? In a utopian world, they would, but we dont have that by a long way. Some things do grow in the wild and so may be picked if they are not protected plants, or protected animals etc. However, homeopathic medicines can be made at home but take a little effort and these are virtually free. It just depends how much you are willing to learn and how much you are prepared to do to maintain your own health.

In the old days, you used to have some people who used to go round collecting eye of toad and tongue of bat..... but these days it is difficult to find such people. :-) (Thats a joke by the way)
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,941,331 times
Reputation: 9584
ocpaul20 wrote: Again, I feel you are making wild assumptions and untrue statements about these forms of healing. I am convinced that there is a whole area of medicine and science which has not been investigated because of people such as yourself who will not accept that there are equally effective treatments to disease which do not involve orthodox medicine.

Hey Paul.....There will always be people who are self proclaimed experts on a topic with which they have no actual experience. Bias, prejudice, and wild assumptions are the shapers of their opinion, to which they are entitled. I just laugh it off. Humor is good medicine!
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 14,906,415 times
Reputation: 5449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
And you know this...how? Coming from China, I would say that you are totally wrong in this assumption and since I know a TCM doctor, I am probably speaking with more authority on this subject than you are. I can only assume that you are bias against this form of treatment.
What form specifically are you talking about?

Quote:
and it has saved my life too. There are probably instances where alternative medicine has saved lives, but it tends to be more preventative in nature so is less suitable for critical life-threatening issues.
Which are the same health issues that drive people to real Drs. You have medical records to PROVE some herb or magic Clark zapper saved your life?

Quote:
The point is that orthodox medicine is often knee-jerk reactions to urgent conditions brought about because, for a lot of people, they dont want to see a doc until it is fairly serious. Others of course, prefer to see their doc for the smallest scratch.
What do you mean by knee-jerk? A ruptured appendix must be removed.

Quote:
This is rather like saying "a body can only hold as much blood as will fill the blood vessels." In your example, you CAN remove the need for medication by actively addressing the causes of heartburn or headache and THAT is what we should be aiming towards, NOT treating the effects/symptoms of some illness or condition. Can't you see that after all your years in the medical world?
Have you any idea how many Drs suggest diet change before medication? Most do, but they know the person will not do it - and they don't. They will not change their eating habits. They're back in a few weeks looking for medication. The Dr complies to prevent even more damage to the person's esophagus by non-compliance.

Quote:
There you go wanting proof again. Just because it is not "written up" and peer reviewed does not mean that it did not happen and people were not cured.
You don't seem to understand that people, HEALTHY people with no interest in alt meds are PAID to write those meaningless yet compelling testimonials. Many are written by the person selling or shilling these alt cures and treatments. Those cured people do not exist.

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Try to see past this needing proof of everything, it is really a fear-based approach to medicine. Fear that you will not make the correct decision because there is not enough 'proof'.
Of course proof is wanted. You're talking about LIFE and health. Are you kidding us? It has nothing to do with fear. It has all to do with fake cures that do nothing more than lighten the sucker's wallet. Tell us, do you have good health and dental insurance with a known company?

Quote:
The Bristol Cancer Clinic in the UK .....One thing I believe they stress is that you do not have to cease conventional drugs, and why should you if they are helping the condition. However, their regimen does include sensible diet guidlines for people with serious diseases. Often people go there as a last resort after they have tried the conventional medicine route.

Again, I feel you are making wild assumptions and untrue statements about these forms of healing.
Sorry, but I am not. What part of the medical field so you now work in? What do you do for a living?

Quote:
I am convinced that there is a whole area of medicine and science which has not been investigated because of people such as yourself who will not accept that there are equally effective treatments to disease which do not involve orthodox medicine. One day, the world will come to see that all medicine should be based on energy as we are energy beings.
That statement makes no sense whatsoever. I see all of you alt meds refuse to answer the questions I've asked. Let me try again. What alt med shrinks cancerous tumors like radiation? What a/m takes the place of thyroid meds for hypothyroidism? What a/m treats Lupus? What a/m cures or keeps alive diabetics?

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Who knows best, you or hundreds of years of Traditional Chinese medicine experience? (Please dont answer that, you may embarrass yourself)
SCIENCE knows better. Tiger penises, bear gallbladder and Rhino horn never cured any diseases and yet the Chinese continue to wipe out these animals in their belief they do. I know this embarrasses you. No herb or animal body part yet tested cures cancer.

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I do agree that animal parts are not good for the continued well-being of the animals, and I think that maybe an alternative could possibly be found or used. I dont like the way animals are sometimes treated in other cultures either, but there are ways to move towards a better situation in these cases.
Such as? You will not convince an ignorant un or undereducated person, Chinese or not, that those useless body parts do nothing for them yet do much harm to wildlife. Also, it's the better educated Chinese fighting for better treatment of animals, including their pets.

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The more you rant on in an irrational way, the more I think you may have. Oh well, if you say not, then I suppose you dont. What do others think on City Data? I have a feeling that your rants are doing your argument more harm than good.
As are your rants.

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Answers, what answers? I am trying to address each of your points, however irrational they might be.
What questions have been irrational?

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These days we cannot always tell if medical reports have been 'bought' and the ones produced by drugs companies are just as likely to be 'bought' since they can afford to pay more for them. Many alternative health care professionals survive because of their effective results and the personal word-of-mouth recommendations they get. Why would people go to see a homeopath for example if they did not consider this form of treatment was effective?
For one thing almost 90% of them lack health ins. Others have failed to be cured of cancer or rheumatoid arthritis (or some other disease) so turn elsewhere, not realizing there is no sure CURE for these diseases.

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Need "authenticated" proof again? I wonder why?
See above. Think ignorance and lack of knowledge of human physiology.

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That is why I said "proper qualified herbalist" because I realise that herbs can be toxic if taken in incorrect quantities or for extended periods. I am advocating a good diet and exercise too, but we are talking about alternative health modalities and oil pulling in particular.
A healthy mouth doesn't need oil pulling. Diet and exercise alone would "cure" many of mankind's ills. There is no herb or animal body part that cures OBESITY and laziness. These two are the biggest cause of ill health in the advanced nations today. Now toss in smoking and alcohol. You cannot deny this. It's been in the papers and on TV for years now. Patients ignore their Dr's advice on diet, smoking and all the other health-killers out there. These same people wont listen to nutropaths or any other alt med practitioner either.

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There you go assuming your education will save you from being conned in life. This is just not so unfortunately. People are conned whatever their level of education, so no good feeling superior because of your education. What you say does rather show your attitude to "the poor uneducated populous" though.
My education saved me from quacks, smoking, alcohol, and many other ills suffered by those who either don't know what a healthy lifestyle is, or those who don't care. If you have no medical background, you have no business recommending treatments or cures to people. Do you go to the barber for information on shoes? Does your wife go to the dress shop for information on gardening? Your entire so-called medical education seems to have come from alt med websites.

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I do not recommend anything which I do not have personal experience of and received benefit from. Can you say the same?
Yes. If there was a problem with your teeth and mouth, you need to find out the cause and stop that activity. If you had a mouth cancer starting, you will never know it until it's too late. A dentist would spot it immediately and you could seek real help before it turns fatal. Or take some herbs and hope for the best. Sore gums? The dentist can help you find the cause....

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I have an opinion as you do, but I try to remain open to possible alternatives and try to recognise that I do not know everything about a subject and I recognise that all bodies are different and respond to different healing modalities. I am so pleased to find out that you were in the medical field your entire life because it shows in your attitude here. You may know about orthodox health matters, but you do not have the same general life experiences that I have had - which I might add - are just as valid as yours.
And yours are what exactly? You refuse to keep in mind that conventional Drs do recommend natural treatments or "cures" if you will, but most patients will not make the changes necessary. And those are, again, DIET change and EXERCISE. If the person, and that's most of their patients refuse to make the needed changes,... what do you expect the Dr to do? They prescribe a medication to keep the person from getting worse. They're not God - what else can they do? They can't force compliance.

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Only a healthy colon will work as you describe, if the body has sluggish systems and imbalanced flora in the gut, then illness and disease will result. What you are describing is how it should work, but not many people have this kind of bodily health, particularly as they get older when the effects of poor diet and sedentry lifestyle has taken its toll.
What illnesses and disease will result? Why do the websites never mention which illness and disease results? And what is meant by a sluggish system? Peristaltic contractions continue for the life of the patient, unless they have some other disease interfering. Nothing is going to cure a lazy person on a poor diet. Nothing but a lifestyle change. Any medical Dr or person in the medical field will tell you this. There are no magical cures for laziness, obesity and poor diet.

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At the drop of a hat means that they are quick to decide that this is the best course of action when possibly other treatments which may take longer are likely to be effective too. If we are talking about choices here, then I would prefer to keep my organ and put a little more effort into repairing what I had (almost) destroyed through my ignorance and bodily misuse. I have already said that if there is no alternative then of course I would have my organ removed, but often there are alternatives. It is up to the patient to decide which course of action they choose and their responsibility to find out which is best - NOT for the doctor to tell them which is easiest.
Why do you assume all Drs tell them which is easiest? I honestly don't think you ever had contact with Drs, or numbers of Drs and Specialists. Surgery is most often the last option. Omit caesarians. For some reason GYNs are still performing more than necessary in the opinion of many people in and out of the medical fields.

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Who said that doctors or anyone else have to work for free? In a utopian world, they would, but we dont have that by a long way. Some things do grow in the wild and so may be picked if they are not protected plants, or protected animals etc. However, homeopathic medicines can be made at home but take a little effort and these are virtually free. It just depends how much you are willing to learn and how much you are prepared to do to maintain your own health.
To maintain good health all you need do is eat a healthy diet, get plenty of exercise and give up smoking and booze. No amount of all meds will take the place of those things.

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In the old days, you used to have some people who used to go round collecting eye of toad and tongue of bat..... but these days it is difficult to find such people. :-) (Thats a joke by the way)
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
19,607 posts, read 20,067,215 times
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Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post



To maintain good health all you need do is eat a healthy diet, get plenty of exercise and give up smoking and booze.
Give up my sensi & brew!? NEVERRR!
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:15 AM
 
Location: UK
6,901 posts, read 6,807,149 times
Reputation: 6510
=^..^= I think we have come to the end of this 'discussion' dont you?

Lets both just agree that
a) diet and exercise can be a major factor in prevention of disease
b) people very often do not want to change their lifestyle
c) there will always be people who hang onto their beliefs until the bitter end.
d) an attitude change or change of thinking is what is needed for entrenched habits to be modified

The rest of the stuff we have to disagree on and invoke item c) above.
Can we do that?
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